Oryoki

SG - have you ever grown your own vegetable garden?

The "washing the sand away from the rice" reminds me of the connection to sustenance/nature one feels when pulling up a handful of carrots from the garden and washing the dirt away.

Most humans in today's world have little to no connection to their food/sustenance. Especially the meat they eat.

In contrast, when reading the poetry of North Americans, one can sense the intense connection they had to the earth that sustained them.
 
Snoopy said:
I never expected to see an OP concerning Dogen!!!!

Care to elaborate on your sense of strangeness, sg? :)
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It doesn't seem 'natural' to me. Overprocessed. *shrugs*

Nick the Pilot said:
SG,

Are you saying it is too extreme?
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In a ritualistic sort of way, yes. One way to remove spontaneity is to ritualize something to this extreme, imo. :(
 
IowaGuy said:
SG - have you ever grown your own vegetable garden?
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Yes, I have.

The "washing the sand away from the rice" reminds me of the connection to sustenance/nature one feels when pulling up a handful of carrots from the garden and washing the dirt away.

Most humans in today's world have little to no connection to their food/sustenance. Especially the meat they eat.

In contrast, when reading the poetry of North Americans, one can sense the intense connection they had to the earth that sustained them.
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It's really not the mindfulness, care, and respect taken in preparing the food that seems alien to me, it's just so over-processed to the point that it becomes impersonal to me, I guess.
 
"...ritualize something to this extreme..."

--> It was Buddha himself who told us to walk the middle path and avoid extremes. Buddhists who do such extreme things are not walking the middle path.
 
I am reminded of how the middle path includes being too good. We must not be too nice to other people. This is just as much against the middle path as being too bad.
 
seattlegal said:
It doesn't seem 'natural' to me. Overprocessed. *shrugs*


In a ritualistic sort of way, yes. One way to remove spontaneity is to ritualize something to this extreme, imo. :(
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I think each culture expresses various aspects differently; witness the Vinaya - is that over-processing? Hundreds of rules covering every aspect of monastic life...
 
Snoopy said:
I think each culture expresses various aspects differently; witness the Vinaya - is that over-processing? Hundreds of rules covering every aspect of monastic life...
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Yeah, you're right. {It still doesn't mean that I wouldn't go stark raving banana whacko if I was in that kind of environment}
 
Nick the Pilot said:
I am reminded of how the middle path includes being too good. We must not be too nice to other people. This is just as much against the middle path as being too bad.
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The Middle Path is absolute authenticity, each side of the coin is merely a concept, a split in our integrity. We always choose a particular side of the coin and fight with the other, we do not realize both are the same coin merely displayed differently. Can the coin be split? If you split it you merely have four sides instead of two...

Become fully integrated, permit both extremes, but do not attach to either... they are guests, but if you do not entertain them, they will not stay long. You are the coin itself, what does the surface matter to your core?
 
seattlegal said:
It's really not the mindfulness, care, and respect taken in preparing the food that seems alien to me, it's just so over-processed to the point that it becomes impersonal to me, I guess.
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I found the part in the article interesting where the monk says that we should not get excited about "good" ingredients any more than we are downtrodden about "bad" ingredients.

"If you only have wild grasses with which to make a broth, do not disdain them. If you have ingredients for a creamy soup do not be delighted. Where there is no attachment, there can be no aversion. Do not be careless with poor ingredients and do not depend on fine ingredients to do your work for you but work with everything with the same sincerity. If you do not do so then it is like changing your behaviour according to the status of the person you meet; this is not how a student of the Way is."

I don't know about you but I get much more excited about a good cup of java than a bad one!

Is it bad to enjoy food and drink from a Buddhist standpoint? Why not be delighted when making a meal with high-quality fresh, local vegetables? Can't one enjoy a good meal and a nice glass of wine, in the present moment, without there being attachment?
 
Now I remember why I never grew fond of Buddhism, I don't see this material life as something to escape from, it is suffering, yes, but also bliss. If I would want to escape this life, then I would also practice attachment, but I want to enjoy life so the Buddhist way isn't entirely my path. I'm sticking with Tao for now.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
Now I remember why I never grew fond of Buddhism, I don't see this material life as something to escape from, it is suffering, yes, but also bliss. If I would want to escape this life, then I would also practice attachment, but I want to enjoy life so the Buddhist way isn't entirely my path. I'm sticking with Tao for now.
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Escape? Where is that?
 
IG,

You said,

"I get much more excited about a good cup of java than a bad one!"

--> The trick is not to get attached to drinking coffee. Let me give you an example. I love eating a good steak now and then. (I know, I know, it's not very Buddhist of me to enjoy eating dead animals...) But the thing is, if I never have another steak the rest of my life, it will not bother me. I am not attached to having a good steak once in a while. So back to your example of coffee, yes, it's okay to enjoy coffee, but Buddhism asks; would you be okay with never drinking coffee again in this life, if there was a reason to suddenly stop drinking coffee?
 
Nick the Pilot said:
The trick is not to get attached to drinking coffee. Let me give you an example. I love eating a good steak now and then. (I know, I know, it's not very Buddhist of me to enjoy eating dead animals...) But the thing is, if I never have another steak the rest of my life, it will not bother me. I am not attached to having a good steak once in a while. So back to your example of coffee, yes, it's okay to enjoy coffee, but Buddhism asks; would you be okay with never drinking coffee again in this life, if there was a reason to suddenly stop drinking coffee?
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Hi Nick, thanks for the analogy, that is helpful.

But using your same logic, would you be OK with not eating a steak again? Especially since it goes against Buddhist principles by eating another sentient being? If you're OK with never eating steak again, then why eat it at all? This is where it doesn't make sense to me...
 
...all that messing for a bowl of soup. Thankfully, Pot Noodles were invented by his holy Noodlyness -- praise Ramen!

...and tonight, I had meatballs, and holy spaghetti!
 
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