Who is the real Gabriel?

[Lunitik]

@True Gabriel

Apologies, I have assumed you Muslim.

For you, I recommend meditating on the following from the gospel of Thomas:

Jesus said to them: when you make the two one,
and when you make the inner as the outer
and the outer as the inner, and the above as the below, and
When you make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female not be female,
then shall you enter the kingdom.

Really, most all of Thomas is interesting, but this especially - it is a statement that you have to transcend duality, this is all I have talked about on this site, but perhaps knowing Jesus said similar will help you encounter.

 

[Abdullah]

According the the Quran the spirit only started hugging Mohammed when Mohammed said he can not read and the hug was so tight that Mohammed could not breath not only that if the hug was to make Mohammed read, it surely did not work.

It is not about saying Islam is wrong it is about learning if Islam is the true religion of God as being aggressively and strongly claim by Muslims since it’s founding in the 7th century by a man name Mohammed or is it just another religion?

If Islam is the true religion of God then the Quran should be flawless without any conflict or questionable verses or the need to abrogate verses one verse from the other. Why would Muslims adapt abrogation if the revelation was indeed from Allah?

We already see in the beginning the inconsistency with the characteristics of Gabriel that appear to Mohammed and Gabriel that appear to Mary. The difference is very evident and it would seem base on the Quran narration the uncharacteristic of Gabriel - Mohammed clearly show that it is not the same Gabriel of Mary.

Muslims are explaining the narration of the Quran out of context insisting that there is no inconsistency between the Gabriel-Mohammed and Gabriel-Mary.

Examining the context it is clear that Gabriel ask Mohammed to read this mean there was a written document or book present. Mohammed was not totally scare in the beginning that is why he stayed to find out what the spirit wants from him it was only after Gabriel started to squeeze him when he told Gabriel he can not read. Because Mohammed felt that this is not how a good angel should act he got terrified because if he would have stayed any longer he fear he might die because the squeezing was so intense that he felt his heart was to pop out.

3x Gabriel try to make Mohammed read and 3x he failed unlike the Gabriel of Mary, Gabriel just utter the message of Allah “Be” and miraculously Mary became pregnant without a human father. One would think that Gabriel of Mohammed would have successfully done the same thing when he invoke the power of Allah upon Mohammed with the words “READ”.

there are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws; the 'be and it is' is just to decree a matter, but yet the spiritual law required Jibril [as] to breathe into mary's womb for her to conceive, just as an angel breathes in the soul into all mothers' womb:

As to her being pregnant, many scholars say that jibril [as] blew on her chest, and the blow entered her womb through her vagina, and so she became pregant:

66.12. And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

[ref: stories of the Prophets by Ibn Kathir]



a spiritual conception dont require a hard spiritual blow on the soul, but this is not the same for everything; if you ask sufi's they'd tell you that the soul receives a hard blow when a spiritual meaniing descends on it, this is why some sufi's get spiritually intoxicated, i.e, they mentally loose it a bit, albeit temporarily; sahaba/'s got spiritually intoxicated as well for the same reason

and the hardest of blows on the soul is when Allah [swt] reveveals himself in his speach; this is why Moses fell unconcious; it weren't as plain sailing as a spiritual conception for moses was it, so why should it be for muhammad [saw]?; he too is only a human being, thus the transferring of Jibril's [as] spritual attributes to Muhammad [saw] required them hard squeezes, and the wisdom of hardship in Allahs' cause is expailend as above

And as Arthra said, Iqra means to recite and procliam too, and you seem to have missed the bit above where i explained that he may not have been required to read anything at all, but since that word was the first word of revelation too, maybe that word was just meant to penetarte his heart

in the Quran there is a verse that tells the Prophet [saw] not to move his lips when revelation descends on him, and that it is upto Allah to gather it in his heart:

Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (75:16-19)

Another questionable aspect is the abrogation law, Muslims have adapted the rule of abrogation in order to settle any conflict of verses. Why would there be conflict of verses on the first place if Mohammed‘s revelation was truly from Allah? The rule of abrogation stated that verses that came later will supersedes verses of previous revelations. The issue would seem that many early revelations teaches tolerance, freedom of religion, peace and justice. While the later parts of revelations consist mostly of none tolerance, force conversion, and lots of violence against none believer and apostates.

abrogation is easy to understand when one considers the mercy behind it; Islam got revealed gradually over 23 years, and ALlah let the people gradually get used to divine rules; thus some were abrogated for others; also it is a sign of Allah's mercy where Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and there are only a few abrogated verses, and most of the verses in the Quran are merely put into context; this is the case with peace and war verses

 

[Abdullah]

Weeks later, Mohammed's wife will die and Mohammed's encounter with that Gabriel did not get any better especially with the controversial Satanic verses.

here is a chapter from Adil Salahi's Muhammad man and Prophet that explains this:

the Prophet [saw] recited surah 53, entitled an-najm [ the star], when a large number of people, many of who'm were non-muslims, were in the mosque, this surah has a very powerfull ending, which reminds people of the majesty of ALlah and his control over the universe, and that they will surely die and be resurrected, the surah reaches it's climax with the last verse, which commands all mankind to prostate themselves to ALlah and to worship him alone, here is the ending of this surah:


53.43. That it is He Who granteth Laughter and Tears;
44. That it is He Who granteth Death and Life;
45. That He did create in pairs,- male and female,
46. From a seed when lodged (in its place);
47. That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
48. That it is He Who giveth wealth and satisfaction;
49. That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
50. And that it is He Who destroyed the (powerful) ancient 'Ad (people),
51. And the Thamud nor gave them a lease of perpetual life.
52. And before them, the people of Noah, for that they were (all) most unjust and most insolent transgressors,
53. And He destroyed the Overthrown Cities (of Sodom and Gomorrah).
54. So that (ruins unknown) have covered them up.
55. Then which of the gifts of thy Lord, (O man,) wilt thou dispute about?
56. This is a Warner, of the (series of) Warners of old!
57. The (Judgment) ever approaching draws nigh:
58. No (soul) but Allah can lay it bare.
59. Do ye then wonder at this recital?
60. And will ye laugh and not weep,-
61. Wasting your time in vanities? 62. But fall ye down in prostration to Allah, and adore (Him)!



when one considers the Quran allways has a powerful rythm wihch is most suitable for it's subject matter, one can imagine that the powerful rythm here makes these verses sound like a strong hammering. those Arabs listening to the surah being recited by muhammad [saw], the prophet to who'm it was revealed, knew deep at heart that he never told a falsehood, hence every single one of them, muslim and non-muslim alike, prostated himself as commanded by ALlah. Alwaleed al Mughira, an old man and an unbeliever, took a handfull of dust and put it his forehead on it.

soon afterwards, the unbelievers realised what had happened, others like Abu Jahel, could not believe their ears when they heard the story. they wanted to oppose the Prophet [saw], but they had to explian their behaviour and dismiss the whole incident as a non-event. one of their poets came up with the devilish idea that muhammad [saw] mentioned their deities in favourable terms, they went as far coining a couplet of verses praising their idols and claimed that these were used by the Prophet [saw] as he recited the surah to them. It was easy for them to do that, since the surah mentions three of their most famour idiols, al-laat al-uzza and al-manaat, but what does the Quran have to say about them in this particular surah?:


53.19. Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
20. And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
21. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! 23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!



it was in the middle of this passage that those fabricators of the quraish sought to impose their invented couplets after the names of their three idols. the fabricated couplets read: 'these are exalted birds, who'se intercession is desirable". little did they reflect that such as imposistion could not be accepted by any thinking person among them, amlost every verse in the surah is in conflict with such a description, or such compromise. it is sufficient to try read the above quoted passage together with the claimed couplet to realise the whole thing was total fabrication. even the makkan desbelievers themselves were unconvinced and they dropped the report alltogther, allthough some unscrupulous orientalists and other people who are hostile to Islam have tried to make something out of it

 

[Abdullah]

"Gabriel" wrote:

According the the Quran the spirit only started hugging Mohammed when Mohammed said he can not read and the hug was so tight that Mohammed could not breath not only that if the hug was to make Mohammed read, it surely did not work.

To be accurate the Qur'an does not say this.. It is Hadith of Bukhari.. but let's assume it occurred as Bukhari related it.

First let's look at the verses of the Qur'an Surih al-'Alaq Aya 1-5:


Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
Taught man that which he knew not.

( A. Yusuf Ali)

Now consider that there is a similarity to a Biblical text found in Jeremiah 1:6-8

6 Then I said, “Alas, Lord [a]GOD!
Behold, I do not know how to speak,
Because I am a youth.”
7 But the LORD said to me,
“Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’
Because everywhere I send you, you shall go,
And all that I command you, you shall speak.
8 “Do not be afraid of them,
For I am with you to deliver you,” declares the LORD.

In both cases Prophet Muhammad was illiterate and Jeremiah did not know how to speak as he was a youth..

What about the account of Bukhari that Prophet Muhammad was being "hugged".. Another angelic visitation is recorded in the Bible..

The Biblical text has:

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.... And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

- Genesis 32:24-31

See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Jacob_Wrestling_with_the_Angel.jpg

So the Angel of the Lord has not only "hugged" but wrestled...

My own belief is that these should be taken in symbolic ways, and that "wrestling with the Spirit" or the chest being compressed could be related.

But I think it does show that the Qur'an is certainly in the same spirit as the Bible..

very interesting comparisons arthra

i am 'Ibrahim' by the way from the other intefaith forum; nice to see you here!

 

[True Gabriel]

@True Gabriel

Apologies, I have assumed you Muslim.

For you, I recommend meditating on the following from the gospel of Thomas:

Jesus said to them: when you make the two one,
and when you make the inner as the outer
and the outer as the inner, and the above as the below, and
When you make the male and the female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male and the female not be female,
then shall you enter the kingdom.

Really, most all of Thomas is interesting, but this especially - it is a statement that you have to transcend duality, this is all I have talked about on this site, but perhaps knowing Jesus said similar will help you encounter.

Thomas is one of my favourite characters in the Bible especially with his encounter with the resurrected Jesus Christ that I myself can relate to:

Luke 20:25 -29
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[True Gabriel]

there are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws; the 'be and it is' is just to decree a matter, but yet the spiritual law required Jibril [as] to breathe into mary's womb for her to conceive, just as an angel breathes in the soul into all mothers' womb:

As to her being pregnant, many scholars say that jibril [as] blew on her chest, and the blow entered her womb through her vagina, and so she became pregant:

66.12. And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

[ref: stories of the Prophets by Ibn Kathir]



a spiritual conception dont require a hard spiritual blow on the soul, but this is not the same for everything; if you ask sufi's they'd tell you that the soul receives a hard blow when a spiritual meaniing descends on it, this is why some sufi's get spiritually intoxicated, i.e, they mentally loose it a bit, albeit temporarily; sahaba/'s got spiritually intoxicated as well for the same reason

and the hardest of blows on the soul is when Allah [swt] reveveals himself in his speach; this is why Moses fell unconcious; it weren't as plain sailing as a spiritual conception for moses was it, so why should it be for muhammad [saw]?; he too is only a human being, thus the transferring of Jibril's [as] spritual attributes to Muhammad [saw] required them hard squeezes, and the wisdom of hardship in Allahs' cause is expailend as above

And as Arthra said, Iqra means to recite and procliam too, and you seem to have missed the bit above where i explained that he may not have been required to read anything at all, but since that word was the first word of revelation too, maybe that word was just meant to penetarte his heart

in the Quran there is a verse that tells the Prophet [saw] not to move his lips when revelation descends on him, and that it is upto Allah to gather it in his heart:

Move not your tongue with it in order to hasten it. It is on Us to gather it (in your heart) and to recite it. So, when We read it, follow its reading. Then it is on Us to explain it. (75:16-19)


abrogation is easy to understand when one considers the mercy behind it; Islam got revealed gradually over 23 years, and ALlah let the people gradually get used to divine rules; thus some were abrogated for others; also it is a sign of Allah's mercy where Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and there are only a few abrogated verses, and most of the verses in the Quran are merely put into context; this is the case with peace and war verses

I agree, Gabriel with the power of Allah said the words"Be" and Mary became pregnant. The same did not happen or failed to happen when Gabriel of that incident with Mohammed failed to make it happen even after Gabriel utter what sound like sacred words "READ" or " "Iqra" 3x he utter those words and accompany it with physical contact to make it happen and it didn't work.

This would be the only time that Gabriel has failed very uncharacteristic for an angel that was send by Allah.

If we look at the Bible verse, Galatians 1:6 - 8

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

I think it is pretty self explanatory.

Abrogation is fine if it is to strengthen the scriptures of our Lord or Allah. The problem is in Islam, the abrogation rule seem to be against most of the verses that teaches love, equality, freedom of religion etc. verse teachings that are similar to Christianity that came during the early years of Islam while the later parts were mostly aggressive verses of war and punishment to all none believers and apostates. And it would seem this is the reason why the Taliban, al Qaeda and other fundamentalist Muslims are following. If Muslims can have those violent verses abrogated then I believe there will be no need for religious wars or jihad as interpreted by the fundamentalist Muslims.

 

[Lunitik]

Thomas is one of my favourite characters in the Bible especially with his encounter with the resurrected Jesus Christ that I myself can relate to:

Luke 20:25 -29
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

For me, the Gospel of Thomas is the most beautiful text which can be attributed to the early Christians.

 

[True Gabriel]

It is written that Khadija first wife of Mohammed was not a believer or follower of Arab idolatry religion she believe in monotheism and her cousin was a Nestorian Christian monk. When Mohammed reported to her that he was visited by a jin or genie, Khadija immidiately clam him down and convince him that it was not a genie but it was the angel Gabriel. How would Khadija know that it was an angel if she i snot a Christian? If she practice monotheism, the only existing monotheistic religion was Christianity and Judaim so she probably must be a Christian or Judaism? Chances are Christian especially since her cousin is a devoted Nestorian Christian monk?

THis would answer where Mohammed got his Christian background aside from other Christians during his travel as a merchant?

 

[Abdullah]

It is written that Khadija first wife of Mohammed was not a believer or follower of Arab idolatry religion she believe in monotheism and her cousin was a Nestorian Christian monk. When Mohammed reported to her that he was visited by a jin or genie, Khadija immidiately clam him down and convince him that it was not a genie but it was the angel Gabriel. How would Khadija know that it was an angel if she i snot a Christian? If she practice monotheism, the only existing monotheistic religion was Christianity and Judaim so she probably must be a Christian or Judaism? Chances are Christian especially since her cousin is a devoted Nestorian Christian monk?

THis would answer where Mohammed got his Christian background aside from other Christians during his travel as a merchant?

there was the basic understanding of the religion of Abraham and Ismael in Arabia at that time and specifically amongst the Meccan Arabs, as Khadija was, for Makkah was the centre of pilgrimage that was still continuing since Abrahams time, and the holiest of places of worship dedicated to the worship of ALlah was there, the Holy Ka'aba, that was built by Abraham and Ismael [as] themselves

thus allthough the arabs had introduced polythiestic concepts such as worshipping idols along with ALlah, yet they had basic ideas of good and bad, angels, etc, thus being fully aquainted with Muhammad's [saw] sublime character, she just knew that Allah would not humiliate him or send him crazy like that, or make him an invitation to jinns messing with him; in their hearts, the Makkans knew that ALlah was the God of the heavens and lives were really in His hands

Muhammad [saw] was known as the al-ameen (the trustworthy) before he reached his prophethood, he never told a lie, he was kind compassionate and looked after orphans and loved and gave charity to the poor people, he even detested the idols and never worshipped them, following his inbuilt knowledge to worship the God of the heavens alone

thus Khadija knew by intuition that what Muhammad [saw] experienced must be a real angel

basically, Khadija, nawfal, the christian monk, etc, were all part of Allah's plan of how gradually Muhammad [saw] will be reassured, giving the new found spirituality that was tansferred from Jibril [as] to him, to take a steady hold of his senses and make him see the truth from the confusion and fear that was only natural for him to experience

 

[True Gabriel]

there was the basic understanding of the religion of Abraham and Ismael in Arabia at that time and specifically amongst the Meccan Arabs, as Khadija was, for Makkah was the centre of pilgrimage that was still continuing since Abrahams time, and the holiest of places of worship dedicated to the worship of ALlah was there, the Holy Ka'aba, that was built by Abraham and Ismael [as] themselves

thus allthough the arabs had introduced polythiestic concepts such as worshipping idols along with ALlah, yet they had basic ideas of good and bad, angels, etc, thus being fully aquainted with Muhammad's [saw] sublime character, she just knew that Allah would not humiliate him or send him crazy like that, or make him an invitation to jinns messing with him; in their hearts, the Makkans knew that ALlah was the God of the heavens and lives were really in His hands

Muhammad [saw] was known as the al-ameen (the trustworthy) before he reached his prophethood, he never told a lie, he was kind compassionate and looked after orphans and loved and gave charity to the poor people, he even detested the idols and never worshipped them, following his inbuilt knowledge to worship the God of the heavens alone

thus Khadija knew by intuition that what Muhammad [saw] experienced must be a real angel

basically, Khadija, nawfal, the christian monk, etc, were all part of Allah's plan of how gradually Muhammad [saw] will be reassured, giving the new found spirituality that was tansferred from Jibril [as] to him, to take a steady hold of his senses and make him see the truth from the confusion and fear that was only natural for him to experience

I thought the story about Abraham and Ishmael having build the Kabaa started only after Mohammed got his revelation? before that the Kabaa was the temple of gods and goddesses that has nothing to do with Abraham?

Indeed, Mohammed was known to be trustworthy that was why Khadija took him as her husband, then why would Khadija doubt Mohammed when he told her that it was a jin and not Gabriel?

Waraqa who was an Ebonite or Nestorian Christian monk also re-assure Mohammed that it was angel Gabriel because Waraqa believe that Mohammed was the prophet of the Ebonite or Nestorian sect that would expand their faith to the Arabs.

Both Khadija and Waraqa do not believe in jins or genies and yet, we will find in the Quran the inclusion of these spirits, why? Was Mohammed not fully convince that there was no jins? Sura 51:56 and Sura 72

Khadija could not have been more sure or firm that it was an angel and not a jin by intuition alone unless she is a firm believer of the Bible, chances are she was a firm believer either of the Ebonite, Nestorian Christian sect which are consider heretical by the establish church or she is a Jew, she was probably not a follower or believer of the establish Christian church.

The Ebonite and Nestorian sects do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity and Mary. It is too much a coincident that Islam follows their same doctrine in fact in the Quran Sura 5:116 and 117 and Sura 5:71 -74 directly mention about the Trinity, deity of Jesus Christ and the worshipping of Mary. The problem is, Christians never worship Mary one will never find anywhere in the ancient council meetings that Mary was establish to be worship, what was establish was to give Mary special status not equal to God or be like God or to be worship.

The anti Trinity, Mary and deity of Jesus were all from the heretical Christian sects such as the Arianism, Nestorian, Ebonite and many more and all of these sects were wide spread in the Middle East during that era when the Byzantine started to banned these sects those sects retreated to the outskirts away from the centre of Byzantine control areas.

 

[Abdullah]

I thought the story about Abraham and Ishmael having build the Kabaa started only after Mohammed got his revelation? before that the Kabaa was the temple of gods and goddesses that has nothing to do with Abraham?
.

the Quraish [arabs of Makkah] knew their bloodline decended from Ismael [as] and they knew that Abraham and ismael [as] built the Ka'aba, and that Abraham had started the pilgrimage and worship rites of Ka'aba, but they had ofcourse distorted and interpolated the rituals

there is a verse in the Quran where it says that the pagan arabs say that the angels are the daughters of Allah, thus they did have a concept of angels, but had got it distorted just like the chrisitans have now, such as say angels can be bad too

there is another verse where it says that the pagan arabs say that they only worship the idols as a means and a way to worship Allah, thus the worship of Allah continued but it was mixed with idolatry

every pagan arab knew vividly the events of the 'year of the elephant' when just before or around the time of Muhammad [saw's] birth, a christian king had come to demolish the ka'aba with his army, and ALlah destroyed them with birds that pelted rocks down on them; there is an account that after Abraha [the christian king] had summoned Abdul-Mutallib, the leader of the Quraish, he asked Mutallib what he wanted expecting him to beg for ka'aba not to be destroyed, but Abdul-Mutallib told him, i am only the master of my camels [which Abraha had confiscated] and i ask for you to give them back, as for the Ka'aba, ALlah is it's owner and He is sure to protect it; this incident shows how the worship and rudimentary knowledge of ALlah existed from the time of Abraham [pbuh]

there were even a few monothiests before the advent of Muhammad [saw] that recognised the foolishness of idol worship and only worshipped Allah alone

And all the other nonsense about waraqa was this and that etc, is only some wishfull thinking fitted around these events by Christians

 

[Abdullah]

Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah means to believe that Allah alone is the Rabb(the Creator, Provider, Sustainer, etc.) He has no partner in His Dominion and Actions. Allah alone has the power to benefit or harm, the power to change destiny, and He alone is truly Self-Sufficient (As-Samad) upon whom all the creation depends, as He says: “Allah created all things and He is the Wakeel (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian) of all things.”[1] “To Him belong the keys of the Heavens and the earth. He (Allah) enlarges and restricts provisions to whomever He Wills. Surely, He has Knowledge of everything.”[2]

Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah also includes the belief that Allah is Unique (One, single) and Incomparable. He has no wife nor offspring, no mother nor father. “Say, He is Allah, the One and Only. Allah, the Eternal - the Absolute: He begets not, nor is He begotten.”[3] Allah does not merge in any living or dead creature, nor anything is part of Allah. Neither living nor dead merges in the Being of Allah, nor is any creature part of Him. All creatures are created by His Order and are subservient to His Will.

The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah

The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir’awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says: “Say (to the disbelievers): “Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!” They will say: “It is Allah” … Say: “Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?” They will say: “Allah” … Say: “In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?” They will say: “(All this belongs) to Allah.”[4]

However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah’s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say: “We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.”[5] Calling upon Allah for one’s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed: “They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: “These are only our intercessors with Allah.”[6]


Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah and Tawheed al-Asma was-Sifaat > Chapter 2: The Islamic Concept of Tawheed (Monotheism)

 

[Abdullah]

Khadija could not have been more sure or firm that it was an angel and not a jin by intuition alone unless she is a firm believer of the Bible, chances are she was a firm believer either of the Ebonite, Nestorian Christian sect which are consider heretical by the establish church or she is a Jew, she was probably not a follower or believer of the establish Christian church.

Khadija's 'intuition' is common to all; everyone has a concept of 'what goes round comes round'; the bhuddists call it karma ; Khadija [ra] just knew that such evil will not befall such a good man!

the prophet's [saw] character before his Prophethood was such that, his wife had bought a slave boy and given him to him; the slave boys fathers poetry with such sad longing for his son travelled around Arabia and everyone knew how much his father was looking for him and wanted him back; when finally the man found out where the boy was living, the boy, knowing fully well how much his dad missed him, infact refused to go and chose to remain as a slave boy with muhammad [saw]!

he said to his father, i've seen certain things about this man and nothing in the world will make me leave him

that was Muhammad [saw] and his wife knew him better than anyone else!

his wife guessed that it all must be true, and he must be a messenger of God!

see, all it takes is a little common sense to get to the truth; yours has been hiding on this thread Gab

 

[True Gabriel]

Khadija's 'intuition' is common to all; everyone has a concept of 'what goes round comes round'; the bhuddists call it karma ; Khadija [ra] just knew that such evil will not befall such a good man!

the prophet's [saw] character before his Prophethood was such that, his wife had bought a slave boy and given him to him; the slave boys fathers poetry with such sad longing for his son travelled around Arabia and everyone knew how much his father was looking for him and wanted him back; when finally the man found out where the boy was living, the boy, knowing fully well how much his dad missed him, infact refused to go and chose to remain as a slave boy with muhammad [saw]!

he said to his father, i've seen certain things about this man and nothing in the world will make me leave him

that was Muhammad [saw] and his wife knew him better than anyone else!

his wife guessed that it all must be true, and he must be a messenger of God!

see, all it takes is a little common sense to get to the truth; yours has been hiding on this thread Gab

Is that story in the Quran if it is where?

 

[True Gabriel]

=Abdullah;261425]the Quraish [arabs of Makkah] knew their bloodline decended from Ismael [as] and they knew that Abraham and ismael [as] built the Ka'aba, and that Abraham had started the pilgrimage and worship rites of Ka'aba, but they had ofcourse distorted and interpolated the rituals

there is a verse in the Quran where it says that the pagan arabs say that the angels are the daughters of Allah, thus they did have a concept of angels, but had got it distorted just like the chrisitans have now, such as say angels can be bad too

If we take a close look at Islam, Muslims have still distorted Abraham's One God religion because they have incorporated materials that are not part of Allah's teachings to Abraham such as jins, and venerating rocks. Abraham would never put a rock to be worship or venerated. Thanks to us the Christians the true Words and revelation of God has been preserve and expanded to the whole world. That is why God commanded Moses to write down all His revelation because God knew that man will corrupt His Words.

Exodus 17:14 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven."

there is another verse where it says that the pagan arabs say that they only worship the idols as a means and a way to worship Allah, thus the worship of Allah continued but it was mixed with idolatry

Up to to this date they have not remove all the idols they have preserve one rock place inside Muslim most sacred temple the Kabaa. What happen was they remove all the rest of the rocks but kept one, that is still idolatry.

every pagan arab knew vividly the events of the 'year of the elephant' when just before or around the time of Muhammad [saw's] birth, a christian king had come to demolish the ka'aba with his army, and ALlah destroyed them with birds that pelted rocks down on them; there is an account that after Abraha [the christian king] had summoned Abdul-Mutallib, the leader of the Quraish, he asked Mutallib what he wanted expecting him to beg for ka'aba not to be destroyed, but Abdul-Mutallib told him, i am only the master of my camels [which Abraha had confiscated] and i ask for you to give them back, as for the Ka'aba, ALlah is it's owner and He is sure to protect it; this incident shows how the worship and rudimentary knowledge of ALlah existed from the time of Abraham [pbuh]

Is it written in the Quran or is it just a story?

there were even a few monothiests before the advent of Muhammad [saw] that recognised the foolishness of idol worship and only worshipped Allah alone

And all the other nonsense about waraqa was this and that etc, is only some wishfull thinking fitted around these events by Christians

The Jews were the only monothiest and thanks to the prophets such as Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Samuel etc. they shepherd the Jews to keep them monethiest, and Christians continue the monothist religion of Abraham's God up to this day.

Waraqa came to the attention of Christian and none Christian historians after they read it from Muslim journals and from what was written about Waraqa by Muslims left many unanswered questions. According to Muslim tradition Waraqa was a Christian monk an Ebonite Christian, he was a cousin to Khadija and Mohammed. After checking what is an Ebonite we learn that they are a Jewish Christian sect that follow the Old Testament and the Gospel of Mattew only from the New Testament. They are against the Trinity, honoring Mary and deity of Jesus Christ.

Here are the questions:
1. Gospel of Matthew contains many claims on the deity of Jesus, Matthew was also present when Thomas prostrate and worship Jesus after he was convince Jesus is God, "My Lord and my God". So if Ebonite follow the Gospel of Matthew why would they be anti Deity of Jesus?
2. Ebonite are Jewsih Christian, does this mean the Khadija and Mohammed lineage are Jews maybe not 100% maybe 50% Jews that is why Kahdija does not believe in the Arab pagan tradition pf jins and what not?
3. Mohammed has a reputation of being very trustworthy that is why Khadija took him as her husband, so why would she doubt him when Mohammed told her that it was a jin?
4. Why would after Kdahija told him that it was not a jin, why Mohammed still include jins in his Quran?
5. Why does Muslims refuse to recognize historical and archaeological discoveries that validate the Bible such as the Dead Sea Scrolls?
6. And why abrogation, Muslim accuse Christians of adding and removing Scriptures with out any proof and yet they themselves have openly said that Allah abrogate verses, doesn't this tantamount to corruption of the Quran?

 

[True Gabriel]

Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah means to believe that Allah alone is the Rabb(the Creator, Provider, Sustainer, etc.) He has no partner in His Dominion and Actions. Allah alone has the power to benefit or harm, the power to change destiny, and He alone is truly Self-Sufficient (As-Samad) upon whom all the creation depends, as He says: “Allah created all things and He is the Wakeel (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian) of all things.”[1] “To Him belong the keys of the Heavens and the earth. He (Allah) enlarges and restricts provisions to whomever He Wills. Surely, He has Knowledge of everything.”[2]

Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah also includes the belief that Allah is Unique (One, single) and Incomparable. He has no wife nor offspring, no mother nor father. “Say, He is Allah, the One and Only. Allah, the Eternal - the Absolute: He begets not, nor is He begotten.”[3] Allah does not merge in any living or dead creature, nor anything is part of Allah. Neither living nor dead merges in the Being of Allah, nor is any creature part of Him. All creatures are created by His Order and are subservient to His Will.

The Arab Pagans believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah

The belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah was never denied by any of the previous nations, except few who denied the existence of Allah, like Fir’awn (Pharaoh), the atheists and communists of this age. The Arab Pagans amongst whom the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) was sent believed in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah. They believed in Allah to the extent that they declared Allah as the Supreme Lord. They acknowledged Him as the Creator of the Universe and considered Him to be the Sovereign and the Provider of sustenance, as is clear from the verses of Soorah al-Muminoon, Allah says: “Say (to the disbelievers): “Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!” They will say: “It is Allah” … Say: “Who is the Lord of the seven Heavens and the Lord of the Great Throne?” They will say: “Allah” … Say: “In whose Hands is the sovereignty of everything? And He protects all, while against whom there is no protector, if you know?” They will say: “(All this belongs) to Allah.”[4]

However, the belief in Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah did not make them Muslims, because they lacked Tawheed al-Uloohiyyah (Oneness of Allah’s Worship). Even though, the Arab Pagans believed that Allah was their Lord, they did not direct all forms of worship to Him alone. They believed that Angles and pious people had special status with Allah, and thus could intercede with Allah for them. They would say: “We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah.”[5] Calling upon Allah for one’s needs is a great act of worship, and if it is directed towards other than Allah, it leads to Shirk in the worship. Allah revealed: “They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: “These are only our intercessors with Allah.”[6]


Tawheed ar-Ruboobiyyah and Tawheed al-Asma was-Sifaat > Chapter 2: The Islamic Concept of Tawheed (Monotheism)

Why is it that Muslims always incorporate folklore stories into Islam? This story very much sound like the 1000 and One Nights or The Arabian Nights" story.

The only recorded historical data was that the Kabaa was attacked and the stone taken not by Christians but by rival Muslim tribes. In fact, they even try to destroy the rock believing it is idolatry.

The Stone has suffered desecrations and significant damage over the centuries. It is said to have been struck and smashed to pieces by a stone fired from a catapult during the Umayyad siege of Mecca in 756. The fragments were rejoined by 'Abd Allah ibn Zubayr using a silver ligament.[12] In January 930 it was stolen by the Qarmatians, who carried the Black Stone away to their base in Hajar (modern Bahrain). According to Ottoman historian Qutb al-Din, writing in 1857, Qarmatian leader Abu Tahir al-Qarmati set the Black Stone up in his own mosque, the Masjid al-Dirar, with the intention of redirecting the Hajj away from Mecca. However, this failed, and pilgrims continued to venerate the spot where the Black Stone had been.[13]

According to historian Al-Juwayni, the Stone was returned twenty-three years later, in 952. The Qarmatians held the Black Stone for ransom, and forced the Abbasids to pay a huge sum for its return. It was wrapped in a sack and thrown into the Friday Mosque of Kufa, accompanied by a note saying "By command we took it, and by command we have brought it back." Its abduction and removal caused further damage, breaking the stone into seven pieces.[9][14][15] Its abductor, Abu Tahir, is said to have met a terrible fate; according to Qutb al-Din, "the filthy Abu Tahir was afflicted with a gangrenous sore, his flesh was eaten away by worms, and he died a most terrible death."

In the 11th century, a man allegedly sent by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah attempted to smash the Black Stone, but was killed on the spot, having caused only slight damage.[13] In 1674, according to Johann Ludwig Burckhardt, someone smeared the Black Stone with excrement so that "every one who kissed it retired with a sullied beard". The Shi'itePersians were suspected of being responsible and were the target of curses from other Muslims for centuries afterwards, though explorer Sir Richard Francis Burton doubted that they were the culprits; he attributed the act to "some Jew or Greek, who risked his life to gratify a furious bigotry

No wonder Mohammed included jins in the Quran probably he got three wishes too (1) That he and all devoted Muslims will enter paradise to enjoy 72 virgins and unlimited wine..wish granted. (2) The black stone will be venerated by all Muslims...wish granted third and final wish the most important (3) That all Muslims will remain submissive for ever and ever... wish granted. That is why majority of Muslims are not asking questions or can not see the many faults or contradiction of the Quran and Islam they attribute everything is the will of Allah and all those who question, do research, and studies to learn the truth about Islam are all infidels and bias towards Islam.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Abdullah, I don't follow these threads very much, but I want to commend you far always answering questions thoroughly. You are always very respectfully even when I don't find your opponents that way. Keep up the spirit.

 

[Abdullah]

Is that story in the Quran if it is where?

that story is in the Quran, but only when derived

and do the general people not have an understanding of good befalling good people and visa versa?; they indeed do, for example, if a murderer gets killed, they'd immediately recognise it as the 'what goes round comes round principle'; this is a metaphysical law everyone is familiar with for it is so obvious

also in the Quran ALlah basically says that every human is create with an innate nature inclined towards recognising basic good and bad and the one and only GOD too; also one which is inclined towards good, hence this is why children are so innocent and angelic in nature; they do get bad when exposed to too much evil and their innate nature gets mutilated

science has confirmed this nature too; here are the Islamic evidence, followed by the scientific one:

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
Islam is the religion of all Prophets, Adam to Muhammad. Children are not born out of any sin, original, inherited or derived. They are born on the religion of their nature, i.e., Islam.
RECOGNITION OF ALLAH

The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.

In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".

If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
​

So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. (By Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips )

Every Child is Born Muslim


Children are born believers in God, academic claims

Children are "born believers" in God and do not simply acquire religious beliefs through indoctrination, according to an academic.

Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.


"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.


"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."


In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose.

In one study, six and seven-year-olds who were asked why the first bird existed replied "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice".

Another experiment on 12-month-old babies suggested that they were surprised by a film in which a rolling ball apparently created a neat stack of blocks from a disordered heap.

Dr Barrett said there is evidence that even by the age of four, children understand that although some objects are made by humans, the natural world is different.

He added that this means children are more likely to believe in creationism rather than evolution, despite what they may be told by parents or teachers.

Dr Barrett claimed anthropologists have found that in some cultures children believe in God even when religious teachings are withheld from them.

"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."



Children are born believers in God, academic claims - Telegraph

 

[Abdullah]

Abdullah, I don't follow these threads very much, but I want to commend you far always answering questions thoroughly. You are always very respectfully even when I don't find your opponents that way. Keep up the spirit.

thank you A Cup Of Tea; I have to invite you over for a cuppa one day

 

[Abdullah]

Is that story in the Quran if it is where?

Yes and that one too

I'll see if i can find it in the hadith; it's not in the Quran, but i read it in a biography book of the Prophet (saw)

Zayd bin Harith was the son of Harith, of the Makhdhoom tribe that lived to the north of Mecca. During a raid, raiders had captured the boy, Zayd. He was taken as a slave and sold at the great fair of Ukaz. At the festival of Ukaz, Zayd along with a few other slaves were purchased by Hakim bin Hizam and taken back to Mecca. Hakim bin Hizam then offered to Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, the wife of Muhammad, to choose any slave for herself. She chose Zayd, who was then taken to her household. On the occasion of her marriage to Muhammad, Muhammad had set free his slave Baraka. Baraka was a slave woman who was owned by the late father of Muhammad, Abdullah bin Abdul Muttalib. After the passing away of his father, this slave Baraka, had come into the custody of Muhammad. He had set her free on the occasion of marriage to Khadijah bint Khuwaylid. He often referred to (Baraka) her as his ummi (mother) in later days. Also on the occasion of marriage, Khadijah had given Zayd as a gift to her new husband.

Zaid was a small child. His parents did not know where he was taken and whom he was sold to. The Harithah family cried for their missing child every day.
His father, Harithah, could not stay put in his home. He traveled from region to region. He had visited every tribe to ask if they knew the whereabouts of his son and there had been no ground that he had not traveled. He continuously recited poems while he madly searched for his son.
It was as if little Zaid had forgotten all about his parents. The bliss of this happy family had embraced his soul with all its power and had virtually made him to become an inseparable part. He was comfortable and had become close with our Holy Prophet (PBUH); he was happy and peaceful under our Holy Prophet’s (PBUH) wings of compassion.

Zayd’s Place is Located!

One day, a few people from the Kalb tribe visited the Kaaba. During this time, they saw Zaid and recognized him once they began conversing with him.
They told Zaid that his father and mother were continuously crying for him and that they were inflamed with longing.
However, Zaid was very calm and relaxed. He had a peace of mind since the favors that he was receiving were more divine and holy than the love that his parents had for him. For that reason, he gave the following reply:
“I know that my parents are crying for me. I only ask that you convey what I am about to say to them:
“Although I am very far away, I live close to and serve the Baytullah, the place where the Hajj (pilgrimage) takes place. They should forgo spending their last strength to reacquire me, traveling long distances, and having their camels drudge about the face of the Earth. I thank Allah that I am with a very auspicious and honorable family that has descended from Maad’s bloodline-whose nobility has been passed onwards from descendant to descendant.” (3)

When Haritha received this message, he immediately arrived with his brother, Kab, in Mecca; they carried a large sum of money with the intention of saving Zaid. After inquiring about Zaid’s whereabouts, they found our Holy Prophet (PBUH) and said, “O Chief of the Quraysh, O son of the chief of his people. You are a neighbor of the temple mount and of the temple mount community. You untie the bonds from the slaves who are near the Baytullah and fill their stomachs.” After speaking these words, they declared their purpose:
“We came for our son, who is by your side. Request a ransom that will satisfy us; we will pay you that sum. Just free our son.”
Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) asked, “Who is your son?”
They said, “Zaid bin Harithah.”
Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) then asked, “Is there anything else that you want?”
They replied, “No, we do not want anything else.”
Thereupon, our Holy Prophet (PBUH) said, “If he chooses you, then the ransom is yours and you can take him. But if he chooses me, then by Allah, I will never choose to part with anyone who chooses to stay with me.” (4)

Haritha and his brother were glad to hear those words of the Prophet. They said, “You treated us mercifully and justly!”
Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) asked Zaid, “Do you know them?”
Zaid replied “Yes, I do”
Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) again asked, “Who are they?”
Zaid then replied, “This is my father and this is my uncle.”
Afterwards, our Holy Prophet (PBUH) left Zaid the freedom to decide and said, “You have learned who I am and have seen the love and compassion that I have for you. In that case, you can choose me and stay here or you can prefer to go with them.”

Zayd replied as follows:

“I do not prefer anyone to you. You have taken the place of my mother and father.”
Haritha, who was surprised and shocked by his son’s response, replied with rage “Shame on you. It means that you prefer being enslaved to your freedom, your mother, father, uncle, and household.”
However, Zaid did not share the same conviction; he said, “My dear father, I have seen such remarkable things from this individual that I can never prefer anyone to him.” (5)

In this way, little Zaid had proven his loyalty and attachment to our Holy Prophet (PBUH). Fate was preparing him for a bright and shining future. This condition was his first good tiding.

Zayd, a young man of tender age, surprised everyone, by choosing slavery at the hands of Muhammad over freedom and being re-united with his family. This came as a shock to his father and uncle, who had no choice but to accept the decision of this young man.
Muhammad then set out for the Kabah, where he proclaimed his manumitting (freeing) and adoption of Zayd as his own son. This action of Zayd was very heart moving and beloved to Muhammad

Islamic Voice - Jamadiul-Awwal / Jamadiul-Akhir 1423 H

Zayd ibn Harithah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Resulullah.org | The Prophet Frees Zayd Bin Haritha