God & god - "Know ye not that ye are gods?"

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Knowledge by “negation”​
  1. more than the dried-up brains of an old fop.
  2. maintaining that dry, shriveled-up mass
  3. don't let stand in the way!
  4. wish to alienate yourself from man,
  5. that is your dubious - right.
  6. it doesn't make you right, or even praiseworthy
  7. your stubbornness, your hesitation & mistrust, your fear
  8. informed & enlightened viewpoint & experiences than you have yet
  9. whisper dark things
  10. self-styled dry vacuousness
  11. believe that horse-hockey
  12. so hopelessly SIDETRACKED
  13. get over your obsession
  14. Your limitations
  15. You have failed
  16. to apply the Imagination
  17. How else could a man argue, insist on such foolishness?
  18. The issue here is that you just can't fathom
  19. blow smoke up your ass-hat
  20. your COLD REASONing
  21. something which I do wish YOU could[do]) ...
  22. our resident doubter
  23. "NOPE! NO GOOD!"
  24. No, old chap
  25. God's not HERE, or THERE
  26. God isn't waiting for the likes of
  27. that just wouldn't be fitting,
  28. old crucified Jesus sad-man
  29. quite helpless to you . . .for Goodness sake!
  30. even given two good eyes ...
  31. an old blighter needs the company of his peers

Well, the intentions are good???

Wow if an elder had spoken to Thomas this way when Thomas was a child . . . Thomas would really be confused as an adult.
 
Yes, quite, I am as bothered by the childishness as anyone, so although I am right in all that I *know* ... your observation is correct:

While I notice much, I cannot correct (where or what, or as) with what I do not ___.

Good show then, Bhaktajan, for all I might know arhan;
But don't forget, two wrongs don't make the [any/one] right
It's what do we (and how we do it) which calls the shots
Come the end of the day, and beginning of Night [pralaya].

So that's the answer to another of Thomas' questions; I'd gladly provide more of them ... but part of me, also, still wants to best him. It's undeniable, for I can't stand an old fool making an ass of God. Let him, if he wants to keep it simple, just nod ... and make an ass of himself. I'll do it too, as I'm a right naughty little person.

His lot
have silenced Truth-tellers by the I almost thought to say 1000s. What I mean, of course is millions, but the vehemence which I feel ... well, it's no difference. Never in that sense is FORCE ~ a correct answer.

It's a difficult sword. It cuts both ways. I cannot justify any harm I do, yet there are some folks whose heads I assert, belong on that plate. And I would gladly trade ... oh I'll leave that alone.

After all, who would I be, if I ceased the effort to [take my ~]
 
No less I am an elder and was once taught and tasked to look after every child. It just seems I will occasionally toss out the window, with mercy, tender and ~.

God willing the Mother takes care of that. And she will, one way or ...

But keep jabbering about the lack of the christ within
[some will do],
and string me up if you like; call it as you see it ~ ye who are w/o __.
 
Actually, Thomas, most of us understand exactly what wil means ... and agree with him WholeHeartedly,
OK. Doesn't make you right though, does it. :eek:

... the dried-up brains of an old fop tilting at windmills ... that dry, shriveled-up mass ...
You're really very tiresome, d'you know that? As usual, plenty of spite and spittle, but no substance.

When you have anything to say worth listening to, I'll be here.

Thomas
 
D'you think so? And yet there is evidence of those who have found God precisely that way. I think you'll find that's your opinion, not a universal fact.

I agree with you here, Thomas.

And 'being one with' is one of those new agey, notoriously slippery notions that don't really stand up to examination by logic or common sense. It's a nice sentiment, but really, it is unbridled sentimentalism.

This is interesting. Can you give an example of how "being one with" can't stand up to logical examination?
 
The use of the Capital G in 'God' defines it as "The One, The Creator, the Supreme Being, Yehowah (YHWH), Allah, etc." The use of the small case g in 'god' defines it as "one deity in a pantheon of deities", plural: 'gods'.


Jesus son of Joseph stated, "Know ye not that ye are gods?" This famous quote is seemingly never addressed in sermons or in print. Let's address it now! Comments?
Pantheon connotes, or at least implies, that the gods are not part of a monotheistic religious group. I think it is fair to state that. But if we take god or gods to mean sons of God or Sons of God, then we can say they are Christian or Jewish or Islamic or of the Bahai Faith. Or of any monotheistic religion(s) with precede them. If we take the question mark off of the end of the quote, it would mean that, "You are gods but don't know it."
 
Please forgive the length




I agree, but what are the overall implications? The following may seem to be radical, but bear with me and at least consider the implications. I need to tell one story in order to convey my understanding. Satan is a term used to identify an adversary. Take the account of the fall of man for example: The serpent (who became the voice of opposition) was already in the garden, yet all things were declared very good. It wasn't until Eve was tempted and deceived that the serpent became an adversary. If Satan was actually cast to the earth prior to the fall, then God would not have declared all things very good as Satan would have already been a fallen angel.


Everything God made was very good in the beginning, so Adam and Eve already knew good. The forbidden tree was good, the serpent (our desires and thoughts) was good, and everything that God had made was good prior to one act of disobedience. The serpent is simply mankind's inner voice, our innermost self seeking desires, which aren't bad until they begin to lead us to oppose what God desires for us. Our thoughts and our desires are often tempting, seducing, and alluring when entertained. They are able to ever so subtly lead us to disobey God. Satan is the inner voice of opposition and doubt, yet Satan can also be other human beings as in the case of Job. Satan simply means adversary.


The serpent (our inner voice of opposition) was cursed to consume the dust of the ground for the rest of his days after Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We are made from the dust of the ground, thus it was when Satan was cast to the earth that Satan (the serpent) was cursed to consume humanity, whereby Adam and Eve became Satan's angels (children of disobedience and adversaries to God).


"And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."


They were cast down with Satan; they fell from paradise (heaven) because they yielded to their doubts, they yielded to our inner most desires, they yielded to self and forsake God's statutes. Adam and Eve had became disobedient children of the devil, they had forsake God's statutes and yielded to self desire, thus lost their innocence in the process.


"I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."


"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim) and hast crowned him with glory and honour."



We are elohim (gods/angels) fallen from heaven (paradise). Once obedient children of God (Elohim) now disobedient children of Satan (that which opposes God's will for us/adversary). The good news is that Jesus came to show us the way home, the way back to paradise (heaven). Jesus embodied the fullness of the Godhead. In other words, Jesus was born part of God's eternal family unit. Our Father is spirit (Breath of life) and the Holy Spirit is love (The essence of God). Those born again of the Holy spirit are eternal children of God, just as Jesus was a Son of God.


Adam was an immortal Son of God prior to falling, but he became, like all who came after, mortal sons of men (children of disobedience), which is why Jesus says we must be born again of the Holy Spirit (love) in order for us to become a part of the God's eternal Family again.


"The wages of sin are death" We are gods (angels/children) of the most high, who fell from heaven (paradise) by our disobedience. "I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. We are children of the most high who fell from paradise, and in order to regain our immortality, we must once again yield to God (who is life and love).
Immortality by definition is never lost. If Adam had been immortal, then he still is. Each of us is immortal, but we may or may not be consciously aware of our divine status. (Only that which is absolute is eternal.) Each and every one of us has an eternal, or absolute, aspect; and everyone living has a relative, or temporal, aspect. Perhaps the last half of the last sentence needs elaboration. Everyone who has not died to his relative or temporal nature is already dead. The apostle Paul wrote (I'm sorry I don't know where it is recorded--it may be in the epistle to the Hebrews.) "I die daily." I die twice daily, myself. We die to our mortal nature and we gain immortality consciously. How do Paul (or how did Paul) and I do this? We repent. We turn back to God, our source. How do we turn back? We have come from Heaven. "Know ye not that the Kingdom of Heaven is within ye?"
 
I see 'I die daily' very similar to 'ya can't step in the same river twice.'.

Just like each day, each moment that river moves on, and the molecules of water and earth are new to me... So am I.

I have had new experiences, new thought, and am born anew with this. I am not who I was yesterday as each encounter, each thought has made a revision.

If they were for the better or the worse...that is another story.
 
This division is flawed, the languages in question had no capital letters...

If you understand the One, all else is just mental.
 
The use of the Capital G in 'God' defines it as "The One, The Creator, the Supreme Being, Yehowah (YHWH), Allah, etc." The use of the small case g in 'god' defines it as "one deity in a pantheon of deities", plural: 'gods'.

Jesus son of Joseph stated, "Know ye not that ye are gods?" This famous quote is seemingly never addressed in sermons or in print. Let's address it now! Comments?

Baha'i scholar Abu'l-Fadl connected such verses from Psalms with Acts 28.1-6, interpreting "gods" to mean "saints". Here's his reasoning below for doing so:

It is evident from the Holy Scriptures that the ancient Sabeans considered their spiritual men as "gods." To explain it more clearly; just as the Christians regard their illuminated exponents as "saints," and Mussulmans reverence their great spiritual men as "owleya" (holy ones), so likewise the Sabeans considered their heroes as "gods." The purpose and meaning of the word "god" to idolaters is therefore the same as that intended by the word "saint" to the Christians, and as the title "holy ones of God" to Islam. This fact is proved by the verse of the Acts, ch. xxviii.:--"And when Paul (in the island [page 141] of Melita) had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hand on his hand ...; but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds and said that he was a god." By this they meant that he was one of the "holy ones" of God, or one of the "saints," because they witnessed in him such an evident wonder; even as would be the case among villagers and rustics of the present time. The same meaning is alluded to in the 1st verse of Psalm lxxxii., thus:--"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." This means that God the Exalted will stand, judge and rule in the congregation of the saints. This also corresponds perfectly with that which is revealed in many other places in the Holy Scriptures; such as in Jude, v. 14:--"Behold the LORD cometh with ten thousands of His saints." It is also recorded in Psalm lxxxii, vs. 6.7:--"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

All these verses clearly indicate that by "gods" is meant "saints." The interpretation thereof is that, verily God the Exalted wished that His Chosen Ones should possess piety and sanctity; therefore He elected them to be His holy ones; but they fell into tests, because, like other princes, they persisted in pernicious and ruinous ideas.

I haven't quoted it above, but he ends this topic saying in ancient times the term "gods" was borrowed from the surrounding culture. Hence the Psalms have that borrowed meaning.
 
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Yes, those who dissolve in the One are rightly saints.

They have known and now live utterly in Divine Love, but of course we still see only their form, their appearance.

If you are sensitive enough, though, you sense in such beings of every tradition an overwhelming Love.

Such Love cuts us off utterly from our mind, if we do not escape it goes on drawing us deeper into the heart.

Called as a sage, pir, guru, lama, it doesn't matter.

God is Love.

When you live as Love, how can any distinction be made?

When lovers meet, only love is there.

There cannot be two loves.
 
I have not read all of the comments, but God is consciousness. There is only One God and One Consciousness. That energy streams into you, through you. You are not God, but God is you, you are god, a perspective of the whole, but not the whole, the Whole is infinite and you are not. BTW that streaming is what we perceive as the passing of time. It's really quite simple, but religion tries to complicate it for the purposes of control. Yes, God is as close as your thoughts, the Knowing that you are you. Every thought is a prayer, so be responsible:) Reject religion, it's just the mask we try to strap God with, it's vanity, and nothing more. Love you...
 
" but God is consciousness." How do you know?

How do you know who your real father is? You ask your mother.

Knowledge comes from authority.

"religion tries to complicate it for the purposes of control." This is an immature statement.

Income tax instructions, dictatorships and credit card agreements are for the purposes of control.
 
" but God is consciousness." How do you know?

How do you know who your real father is? You ask your mother.

Knowledge comes from authority.

"religion tries to complicate it for the purposes of control." This is an immature statement.

Income tax instructions, dictatorships and credit card agreements are for the purposes of control.

It's not abstract, it's reality. I asked God to show me, I don't need any other authority:) Take Christianity, it uses fear and hope for control, and the statement, "No one comes to the father except by me" that is control to the max. There is nothing between you and God, your own body is the temple:)
 
Thank you for your reply.

It is every soul for themselves.

I have learnt that man seeks four items for subsistence:
food, comfort, sex and shelter.

And then later, fame & distinction.

From the monarch to the street sweeper all seek these 4 pleasures ---and the more refined, the better.

Aside from this, there are the ascetics that chant the name and pastimes of Godhead ---all in preparation aiming their soul in the right direction upon passing away.

We are so minuscule. We are not independent. We are parts in a material machine cosmos.

otoh, credit card agreements are not abstract, they are reality.

We must serve the whole. And it is the etiquette toward others that will be cultivated by the 24/7 sum of your works.

Aside from the "Stuff" we gratify ourselves with ---there is the cultivated etiquette for Godhead's personage that must be in one's mind's eye at death so as to approach Godhead.

Substitute "Godhead" for anything imaginable ---for that too can be achieved most commonly with ease.
 
Q. How do you know who your real father is?
A. You ask your mother.

Ergo, we learn everything we know via instructions from others.

Every inventor build upon the shoulders and building block knowledge that went before them.
 
Well... there is no legitimate "religion". Religion cannot exist without dogma, and dogma is the death of Spiritual growth. You must wake every day willing to reject everything you think you know for a higher consciousness. That is not religion, that is Gnosis. God is not an abstract concept... your body is literally "The Temple of God". Treat it and your very thoughts, with respect. Consciousness is the stream that flows through the Temple.
 
God=The original Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is infinitely full in all opulences, specifically:
God is the original person who possesses all Beauty, Fame, Intelligence, Power, Wealth, and Renunciation;

also,

God is the first person, with his own eternal and transcendental name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastime.

God's body is the absolute form of 'Sat-Chit-Ananda'—Eternity. Cognizance, and Bliss.

God, by definition [weather we have direct or indirect or very bad or very aboriginal teachers], is, with His own name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastimes in His own abode which we are separate from while living in a "world of forms" ---a world that reflects a state where "Forms are all in their primeval relation to the FIRST FORM [the personage of], God".

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the original persona, from whom all "personality" arises ---and the independent part and parcel souls that we are were created to engage in pastimes with other persons. God being the supreme person, we start to know the mystery of our temporal existence.

After many, many lives of philosophical research the wise man ultimately comes to the point of knowing that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is everything, and therefore he surrenders unto Him. Such serious students in philosophical research are rare because they are very great souls.

If by philosophical research one cannot come to the point of understanding the Supreme Person, then his task is not finished. His search in knowledge is still to be continued until he comes to the point of understanding the Supreme Lord in devotional service.

The Supreme Self-born Personality of Godhead is the All-Attractive originating reservoir of all Persona & Opulences.


PS: Absolute things are objective things.
Non-Absolute things are Subjective things.
 
I think it resonates with "God created man in his own image"
It means we are basically God-like, just without our ignorance
 
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