Looking for a religion...

[Lunitik]

What in hell do you consider to be a "religion"? or should I ask,
What in God's name do you consider to be a "religion"? or should I ask,
For God's sake what do you consider to be a "religion"?

Define Religion please.

Dharma = "Occupational Duties [obliged daily duties]"

How does your own daily dharma sync or conflict with a religion ---is it important connection?

There are Three Main Scriptures of the this world [along with there ancillary off-shoots aka, sects & reformation diasporas]:

1 Judeo-Christian Bible
2 Mohamedian Koran
3 India's Vedic Literatures

Each appeared during an epoch of the human experience and thus has an especial value to the later generations of those cultures.

What is religion? What is the ethomology of the word "religion"?

IMHO, my experiences see the three sequential choices to focus on:
1 Good works rather than Bad Deeds
2 Scholarly erudition
3 Devotional Vocation [civic-service-like work to "the entire Field" of affairs; or, to "other persons & living entities"; or, to the revealed face(s) of GodHead]

inre: Material Sciences ---these are the hidden "Guild-Members-Only" info that must be sought out like an archoiologist or modern inventor would.

The taste of Yoga practice is available ONLY in the tasting.

Religion is the English word for Yoga - both mean to bind. In fact, Jesus calls his teachings a yoke as well, which is the actual meaning of Yoga, but most Christians miss this or just deny it is the same meaning.

The problem is, the Western mind doesn't really desire experience, it doesn't really want a taste, it just wants to feel more secure. Pretending to be sure there is something after death seems to provide that, howsoever false it may be in actuality.

I am curious about your definition of Dharma, though. You say it is duty, I can certainly allow that there is a duty to truth for each individual, but it is a rather poisonous definition in general. There is no duty for man, this delusion creates an ego. We are God enjoying the discovery of himself, his love seeking his love, wishing to experience directly himself. Dharma is love, but divine love, that experience of oneness that changes a man. You can teach the ramifications of Dharma, but you cannot teach Dharma. This is the whole problem though, people cling to the teachings intellectually and never actually encounter its truth.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Religion is the English word for Yoga - both mean to bind. In fact, Jesus calls his teachings a yoke as well, which is the actual meaning of Yoga, but most Christians miss this or just deny it is the same meaning.

Well this is absolutely spot on, and very much coherent ergo, I presume it’s plagerised. I’d give you an C+ for effort for proper citation of source material.

The problem is, the Western mind doesn't really desire experience, it doesn't really want a taste, it just wants to feel more secure.

The status quo of mundane human pursuits is “Pleasure” of the five sences. This credo is the summon-bonum of life’s purpose ---to Enjoy, to Enjoy, Enjoy until death as much as possible AMEN.
Only the over-worked and health minded may make concessions in-favor of constancy.
Hedonism is over-ruled by the daily limitations of the stratum of life inherited and also by one’s sense of nobless-oblige.

Pretending to be sure there is something after death seems to provide that, howsoever false it may be in actuality.

Not sure which way you’re speaking this.

“Pretending to be sure there is something after death . . .”
---this “Pretention” is how every warrior since time-immemorial, “to whom fighting opportunities come un-sought” derived his bravery & courage ---wheater or not those warriors were intellectual enough to verbally articulate such … all so they could be born so as to fight the just war against the Barbarian raiders.

OTOH,

It may be false that “Something after death exists” . . . yet no warrior ran into fire and danger thinking he was giving away his honor and dignity to allow doofusses free reign over the masses. The Leaders of society inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his constituency.
IE: The Mafia leader inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his
Henchmen.
Also, the leaders inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his
Workers and intellects and artists etc.

But “The fruits of work” accrue on the mundane stratum allowing for fissues due to seductive lure of hot blooded pleasures ---and at the time of death the brass ring passes on an eternal merry-go-round until the active living soul seek repose in the audience the Godheads radiant smile.

I am curious about your definition of Dharma, though.

At your age, shouldn’t you know well the definition of Dharma from a bonefide representative of sanatana dharma?

Your last employer would have certainly informed you of the requisite ‘duties’ as per your ‘job-title. Dharma means ‘occupational Duty’ ie: The dharma of water is to be wet and slack thirst etc. The dharma of the Sun is to Shine. The dharma of the policeman is to protect. The dharma of the fireman is to stop fires. The dharma of parents is to raise the children. The dharma of the taxpayer is to pay their taxes.

You say it is duty, I can certainly allow that there is a duty to truth for each individual,

duty to truth ---IS WHAT???

for each individual ---IS DUE DHARMA!!!--- thus the citation from the Bible, “There is a time and place for everything under heaven”, is affirmation of Dharma. An affirmation of Dharma as the assigned duties of all things animate and in-animate.

but it is a rather poisonous definition in general.

Not sure which way you’re speaking this. Krishna speaking about discerning Action from in-action from forbidden action is a subtile subject matter for theists that see Krishna as “the Original Guru within his own terrestrial Pastimes among the Royal Dynasties of the Ancient World” speaking His Song-of-God [Bhagavad-gita]. Krishna spoke His Guru proclamations under abominable circumstance brought on by hubris amongst the royal retinue of great parentage.

There is no duty for man, this delusion creates an ego.

Well certainly I defer to you on the subject of delusion of an ego ---for no one more demonstrates a more air-tight grasp of delusion and ahankara (false-ego).

We are God enjoying the discovery of himself, his love seeking his love, wishing to experience directly himself.

We are a “COGs” in the machine. The Virat-rupa (universal form of Godhead) is the external energy of Godhead’s plenary expansion(s) of “material” matter & energy [aka Maya-Prakriti].
We are a “COGs” in the Godhead’s “material” matter & energy ---where “TIME” is manifested in its shadow form.

Dharma is love, but divine love, that experience of oneness that changes a man.

Plagerised phrase? Yes, the soul seeks repose in other personas. Some personas are bestial and others are cerebral ---thus the soul passes life times tasting the pleasures afforded by all stratums of bodily species of life ... Flying species; Eating species; Pig sty species; Sleeping species; household pet species; Chicken Farm species; Hippo sunbathing species; Marine life species; tree & plant life species ---each allotting the unique facility to past time ---at the time of death, as per the summation of a] works; b] desires & c] the last living thought ---one’s next birth is accorded to a soul without prejudice nor review by higher personas.

“Material” matter & energy easily allows vacancies to be filled by sojourning souls for as long as the soul DOES NOT seek the Face of God as only He would be expected to reveal Himself.

The Soul is seeking the Supreme Personality of Godhead . . . but no one tells the soul that there is a Supreme Personality of Godhead. But Krishna says so.

You can teach the ramifications of Dharma, but you cannot teach Dharma.

This was NOT Plagerised, right? Any Boss will teach dharma to the employee ---if the boss first hires them. But feel free to learn as I "Teach" to your heart's content.

Each boss is a Guru. Each treacher is a Guru. Each fool act is a Guru’s warning.
Each lesson was learnt from a Guru.

A Guru shows how Dharma is harvested in all circumstances for the good of the souls journey toward the ultimate destination.

This is the whole problem though, people cling to the teachings intellectually and never actually encounter its truth.

Well certainly I defer to you on the subject of
“clinging to teachings intellectually but never actually encountering its truth.”


###############################
Before religion, chop wood and carry water;
After religion, chop wood and carry water;

 

[shays860]

Wow. That is a lot of responses. Thanks for all the input.

Seattlegal: I am well aware that speculation can lead to vexation yet I can't seem to quit speculating. My identity has become tied up with it and I have a feeling that even after I have my found my own path I will maintain great interest in learning about spirituality in order to help others find their paths. Even if they are not my own. That said, I have looked into Taoism and it is beautiful. But I don't think it will be my primary path. What I have seen of it is not systematic enough for me. Like Buddhism for instance. The majority of Buddhism seems to be step by step instructions for for attaining Nirvana. And I love that. That is why I have put more serious and sustained effort into that than anything else so far. There are some aspects of it I will probably always adhere to and I may become a full fledged follower again one day. But I seem to need a god figure... a higher power. However you want to think of it. And from what I learned of Buddhism a lot of schools don't posit one. Which is why I'm probably going to start looking into Advaita again. I like the idea of non-dualism and Hinduism is just as systematic as buddhism if not more so a lot of the time... the big problem is that it takes so long to gather the resources (books) to start delving into a new field of knowledge... it's exasperating.

Arthra: Thanks for the suggestion. I have looked into Bahai before briefly and honestly the only reason I didn't look any further was because of the overwhelming amount of information produced in such a short time. but I may look into it again. Thank you.

Nicecupoftea: Monotheistic religions can be pretty dangerous but I have never heard of eastern religions doing any harm. I could be wrong of course and I would love for someone to point me toward any conflicting information.

I dunno... as I said I seem to need some kind of metaphysical belief system. I keep coming back to my search again and again... Thank you again for all your responses... I guess I will try to find a hindu or advaita forum and start researching that.

 

[Lunitik]

Well this is absolutely spot on, and very much coherent ergo, I presume it’s plagerised. I’d give you an C+ for effort for proper citation of source material.


The status quo of mundane human pursuits is “Pleasure” of the five sences. This credo is the summon-bonum of life’s purpose ---to Enjoy, to Enjoy, Enjoy until death as much as possible AMEN.
Only the over-worked and health minded may make concessions in-favor of constancy.
Hedonism is over-ruled by the daily limitations of the stratum of life inherited and also by one’s sense of nobless-oblige.




Not sure which way you’re speaking this.

“Pretending to be sure there is something after death . . .”
---this “Pretention” is how every warrior since time-immemorial, “to whom fighting opportunities come un-sought” derived his bravery & courage ---wheater or not those warriors were intellectual enough to verbally articulate such … all so they could be born so as to fight the just war against the Barbarian raiders.

OTOH,

It may be false that “Something after death exists” . . . yet no warrior ran into fire and danger thinking he was giving away his honor and dignity to allow doofusses free reign over the masses. The Leaders of society inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his constituency.
IE: The Mafia leader inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his
Henchmen.
Also, the leaders inherit a percentage of the collective mass karma produced by his
Workers and intellects and artists etc.

But “The fruits of work” accrue on the mundane stratum allowing for fissues due to seductive lure of hot blooded pleasures ---and at the time of death the brass ring passes on an eternal merry-go-round until the active living soul seek repose in the audience the Godheads radiant smile.


At your age, shouldn’t you know well the definition of Dharma from a bonefide representative of sanatana dharma?

Your last employer would have certainly informed you of the requisite ‘duties’ as per your ‘job-title. Dharma means ‘occupational Duty’ ie: The dharma of water is to be wet and slack thirst etc. The dharma of the Sun is to Shine. The dharma of the policeman is to protect. The dharma of the fireman is to stop fires. The dharma of parents is to raise the children. The dharma of the taxpayer is to pay their taxes.



duty to truth ---IS WHAT???

for each individual ---IS DUE DHARMA!!!--- thus the citation from the Bible, “There is a time and place for everything under heaven”, is affirmation of Dharma. An affirmation of Dharma as the assigned duties of all things animate and in-animate.



Not sure which way you’re speaking this. Krishna speaking about discerning Action from in-action from forbidden action is a subtile subject matter for theists that see Krishna as “the Original Guru within his own terrestrial Pastimes among the Royal Dynasties of the Ancient World” speaking His Song-of-God [Bhagavad-gita]. Krishna spoke His Guru proclamations under abominable circumstance brought on by hubris amongst the royal retinue of great parentage.


Well certainly I defer to you on the subject of delusion of an ego ---for no one more demonstrates a more air-tight grasp of delusion and ahankara (false-ego).



We are a “COGs” in the machine. The Virat-rupa (universal form of Godhead) is the external energy of Godhead’s plenary expansion(s) of “material” matter & energy [aka Maya-Prakriti].
We are a “COGs” in the Godhead’s “material” matter & energy ---where “TIME” is manifested in its shadow form.


Plagerised phrase? Yes, the soul seeks repose in other personas. Some personas are bestial and others are cerebral ---thus the soul passes life times tasting the pleasures afforded by all stratums of bodily species of life ... Flying species; Eating species; Pig sty species; Sleeping species; household pet species; Chicken Farm species; Hippo sunbathing species; Marine life species; tree & plant life species ---each allotting the unique facility to past time ---at the time of death, as per the summation of a] works; b] desires & c] the last living thought ---one’s next birth is accorded to a soul without prejudice nor review by higher personas.

“Material” matter & energy easily allows vacancies to be filled by sojourning souls for as long as the soul DOES NOT seek the Face of God as only He would be expected to reveal Himself.

The Soul is seeking the Supreme Personality of Godhead . . . but no one tells the soul that there is a Supreme Personality of Godhead. But Krishna says so.


This was NOT Plagerised, right? Any Boss will teach dharma to the employee ---if the boss first hires them. But feel free to learn as I "Teach" to your heart's content.

Each boss is a Guru. Each treacher is a Guru. Each fool act is a Guru’s warning.
Each lesson was learnt from a Guru.

A Guru shows how Dharma is harvested in all circumstances for the good of the souls journey toward the ultimate destination.



Well certainly I defer to you on the subject of
“clinging to teachings intellectually but never actually encountering its truth.”


###############################
Before religion, chop wood and carry water;
After religion, chop wood and carry water;

I see much ego in this reply, I will simply ask you to meditate openly on my words rather than address them directly. Just to begin the direction to that end, however, I will again state that Dharma is love. Duty is a cold act, it is not something you want to do, but rather an obligation. Love and duty differ in only this aspect, duty means you don't really want to, love means you do it with pleasure. I will address it further - since you have brought Jesus in - by pointing out that Jesus said "Moses brought the law, I bring love". Which is higher in your eyes? Again, Jesus says "Do not think I come to nullify the law, I come to fulfill it", what are the ramifications? It means that nothing in the law is possible to break if you simply allow love to permeate through your life. More importantly, however, he teaches the very basis of the law, each command is to increase the possibility of love, to decrease the possibility of hatred in the community as much as possible. True virtue is impossible when it is your obligation, it if it duty then you simply act mechanically, it is your training. Love is not a training, it is God. God is intrinsic, it doesn't need to be learned, it is the society that has brought us from God. Trees do not need a discipline, no animal does, only man... why is it so? It is because duty and law kills love, now we have to reacquire it and indeed this is exactly what enlightenment is - to dissolve in divine love, no more permitting mind to fight against nature. Pure love is the highest peak of existence, I hope you have the stamina to reach the summit.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

"...eastern religions doing any harm..."

--> Buddhist monasteries in Japan used to have armies and go to war against each other. Zen Buddhism was extensively used in Japan in WWII to justify the Japanese war effort, and Buddhist leaders in Japan at that time were supportive of the war (although it has been said they were forced into it). But these examples are insignificant compared to the long-term tendency of Buddhist governments and monastaries around the world to stay out of war.

There have also been complaints against Tibetan monasteries for building golden statues of Buddha while the Tibetan people were quite poor, although there is disagreement as to whether the people willingly or unwillingly contributed money to the building of such golden images.

 

[Etu Malku]

The majority of Buddhism seems to be step by step instructions for for attaining Nirvana. And I love that.

The only setback is the surrendering of the Ego . . . I could never do that, I need my Ego.

Nicecupoftea: Monotheistic religions can be pretty dangerous but I have never heard of eastern religions doing any harm. I could be wrong of course and I would love for someone to point me toward any conflicting information.

The danger is in the family structure, which is the foundation of all civilization.

Buddha's first step toward enlightenment was his abandonment of his wife and child. It seems legitimate to ask whether a path that turns away from aspects of life as essential as sexuality and parenthood is truly spiritual?
The very concept of enlightenment begins to look anti-spiritual, it suggests that life is a problem that can be solved, and should be, escaped.

I dunno... as I said I seem to need some kind of metaphysical belief system. I keep coming back to my search again and again... Thank you again for all your responses... I guess I will try to find a hindu or advaita forum and start researching that.

I'm telling ya . . . come over to the Dark Side my childe!!

 

[shays860]

You've intrigued me Etu. What are the merits of Luciferianism? Is there a system for reaching enlightenment or a transformation of consciousness?

 

[Etu Malku]

You've intrigued me Etu. What are the merits of Luciferianism? Is there a system for reaching enlightenment or a transformation of consciousness?

Firstly, we are not Satanists.
There exists two basic schools of Luciferian thought, one is Theistic and the other non-Theistic (what I am).
Non-Theistic Luciferianism does not recognize non-corporeal deities such as gods, devils, demons or even Lucifer . . . LOL!

- from Lucipedia
Lucifer the Principle of gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge. A Luciferian symbolizes progress and intellectual inquiry, it through the Luciferian Aeon that humanity first climbed down from the trees and it has represented the flow of progress ever since.

Yet, Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light! A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

The Luciferic Archetype is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. "Every man and woman is a star" as Crowley proclaimed - and we all have our own Inner Light.
​

- contributed by myself for the Lucipedia project

The Left Hand Path has specific goals in mind.

Apotheosis and Individuation . . . separating from the objective / material universe / god and becoming a god yourself.
Sounds very lofty and egocentric, I know, but when put into psychological, philosophical terms, it is not irrational in the least bit.

Apotheosis (from Greek "to deify"; in Latin deificatio "making divine") is the glorification of a subject to divine level. In theology, the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

Individuation (Latin: principium individuationis) is the process through which a person becomes his/her 'true self'. Hence it is the process whereby the innate elements of personality; the different experiences of a person's life and the different aspects and components of the immature psyche become integrated over time into a well-functioning whole. Individuation might thus be summarized as the stabilizing of the personality.

In summary:
The LHP seeks to separate from the objective universe and enter the subjective universe often, the LHP is about being free from the Will of another and towards self-deification, sovereign of one's own paradigm.
In contrast RHP's seek atonement with the objective universe which some call God, gods, nature, the god & goddess, etc.

Luciferianism is a philosophy of the LHP that uses magick, ritual, and science to achieve apotheosis. Luciferians combine knowledge with experience to achieve Gnosis. We embrace a balance of Light and Dark.

 

[shays860]

I must say that does sound rather appealing. I guess I will look further into it.

 

[Etu Malku]

Shays860, as well as everyone else, are more than welcome to stop by The Luciferian Research Society to learn more about Us and engage in a discussion if you wish in our chat.

I promise I'll keep the demons at bay!

 

[seattlegal]

Wow. That is a lot of responses. Thanks for all the input.

Seattlegal: I am well aware that speculation can lead to vexation yet I can't seem to quit speculating. My identity has become tied up with it and I have a feeling that even after I have my found my own path I will maintain great interest in learning about spirituality in order to help others find their paths. Even if they are not my own. That said, I have looked into Taoism and it is beautiful. But I don't think it will be my primary path. What I have seen of it is not systematic enough for me. Like Buddhism for instance. The majority of Buddhism seems to be step by step instructions for for attaining Nirvana. And I love that. That is why I have put more serious and sustained effort into that than anything else so far. There are some aspects of it I will probably always adhere to and I may become a full fledged follower again one day. But I seem to need a god figure... a higher power. However you want to think of it. And from what I learned of Buddhism a lot of schools don't posit one. Which is why I'm probably going to start looking into Advaita again. I like the idea of non-dualism and Hinduism is just as systematic as buddhism if not more so a lot of the time... the big problem is that it takes so long to gather the resources (books) to start delving into a new field of knowledge... it's exasperating.

While Buddhism does have guidelines and even some step-by-step processes for different things, enlightenment isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. There are innumerable dhamma doors--as numerous as the amount of hang-ups everyone has! As for a God figure in Buddhism--that is up to the individual person and their particular dhamma door. In both Buddhism and Advaita, a God figure is not necessary, but neither is a God figure prohibited. (I chat with an atheistic Advaita Vedanta follower quite often.)

Good luck in your quest!

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Nicecupoftea: Monotheistic religions can be pretty dangerous but I have never heard of eastern religions doing any harm. I could be wrong of course and I would love for someone to point me toward any conflicting information.

.

i would say all religions can be dangerous, spirituality is a personal thing, religion is something else IMO.

i would class Christianity and Islam as Eastern Religions, they are not from the West, although we have our own brands of CHristianity in the West.

I quite like the neo advaita aproach, Gangaji is worth a google lots of stuff on youtube.

but i suppose the world of religion is pretty vast, you will no doubt find something that tickles your fancy, which is not the point really spirituality is not consumerism not the real stuff, the real stuff takes you deep within sorry rambling now.

 

[seattlegal]

Shays860, as well as everyone else, are more than welcome to stop by The Luciferian Research Society to learn more about Us and engage in a discussion if you wish in our chat.

I promise I'll keep the demons at bay!

You might want to fix your link there--it just leads back to IO....