Fear of God

[Lunitik]

Once you walk in the light of the Lord you will see His face and know His love.

As it is you are only in the dark because your heart is filled with the light of man. The flesh is useless, the words I spoke to you are spirit and life.

If only you recognized Gods gift and who it is who's posting to you, you would ask him and he would give you living water.

Anyone who drinks the water I give him will never become thirsty, the water I give him will be like a fountain inside him rising up to provide eternal life.

The Lord sent me , we are One. I am son of man and yes my Father is greater than I.

Have you looked on His face?

That face is all I attempt to show, that light is all I point towards.

That is my true self, nothing else is me.

You seem to still believe you are something else, you still serve the light, you have not yet dissolved in it. You are not yet finished with the journey home, although perhaps you are on the right street.

Is there separation between yourself and the light?

Which are you?

Have you sent yourself?

It is because Jesus isn't yet God realized, he retains separation.

See whether that separation is valid.

You will see that God too is merely an illusion, another concept in the mind.

You are that which you worship, you just don't see it.

It is not to be greater than, it is to realize you never were in the first place.

Only this has ever been.

 

[Lunitik]

I have said Jesus was not God realized, I cannot really say this.

Certainly the writers of the scriptures have not fully grasped the truth if he was, yet it is also necessary to talk this way in certain instances to express truth despite it not actually being the case.

Again the trouble of language, only silence can know what is meant.

"I and my father are one" certainly expresses God realization quite plainly, as does his statements that God does the work through him and that he has no glory of his own, no authority which is separate from the father.

Father is another concept though, now Son must be brought in.

It means the seen and unseen, earth and heaven, below and above...

Yet oneness is all there is.

 

[Lunitik]

Paradox upon paradox when looking from the mind, it is because logic cannot look at the whole, it wants to choose half.

This is why man is basically insane, for in the choice, the other half does not disappear, it simply moves into his subconscious. Now it will continuously arise, and the more it is fought the more power it receives. Then you end up a priest on the national news because you molested a child, or hung yourself in a body suit with string attached to your penis and neck with a dildo up your butt trying to get off.

That which you suppress always gets its revenge.

Do not pick half, accept the whole and move in love, oneness.

 

[Princely]

Have you looked on His face?

That face is all I attempt to show, that light is all I point towards.

That is my true self, nothing else is me.

You seem to still believe you are something else, you still serve the light, you have not yet dissolved in it. You are not yet finished with the journey home, although perhaps you are on the right street.

Is there separation between yourself and the light?

Which are you?

Have you sent yourself?

It is because Jesus isn't yet God realized, he retains separation.

See whether that separation is valid.

You will see that God too is merely an illusion, another concept in the mind.

You are that which you worship, you just don't see it.

It is not to be greater than, it is to realize you never were in the first place.

Only this has ever been.

Yes, I do see His face and stand in His council. I told you but you do not have the ears to hear or the eyes to see because you do not repent and turn to me so you shall be healed. I am the light of the world as I have said, Jesus and I are One but you having your own wisdom cannot see the wisdom of God.You like to sound smart in the words of man but fail because you do not accept correction and refuse the ways of the Lord.

 

[Lunitik]

Yes, I do see His face and stand in His council. I told you but you do not have the ears to hear or the eyes to see because you do not repent and turn to me so you shall be healed. I am the light of the world as I have said, Jesus and I are One but you having your own wisdom cannot see the wisdom of God.You like to sound smart in the words of man but fail because you do not accept correction and refuse the ways of the Lord.

Can wisdom be two?

You are disputing with a brother in light, apparently, saying that correction is needed when deviation is impossible. You say I must repent, yet it is impossible that I sin. Such is the case with the light, it simply is.

Love is the only law, it is the Lord as 1 John 4:8 says God is love.

I do not see or feel love in your words, thus I must deny you.

I only see in your words that of the Jews which crucified Him, yet you wish me to heed what you say... has Jesus heeded them? He has shown that death is better than conformity to any man and to any book, Jesus has lived in love alone, he is not of the world, he only spent a time in it.

This is the case with each of us if you could understand.

 

[Lunitik]

Most important of all, he has shown that only unwavering love can survive death.

All else will perish.

 

[Princely]

Can wisdom be two?

You are disputing with a brother in light, apparently, saying that correction is needed when deviation is impossible. You say I must repent, yet it is impossible that I sin. Such is the case with the light, it simply is.

Love is the only law, it is the Lord as 1 John 4:8 says God is love.

I do not see or feel love in your words, thus I must deny you.

I only see in your words that of the Jews which crucified Him, yet you wish me to heed what you say... has Jesus heeded them? He has shown that death is better than conformity to any man and to any book, Jesus has lived in love alone, he is not of the world, he only spent a time in it.

This is the case with each of us if you could understand.

If you were a brother in light you would walk act in truth, but you walk in the light of the flesh which is useless.Your light is the darkness of man. God is love but not like man thinks. You cannot see the love in my words because you do not follow me as I follow Jesus. Whoever is committed to the truth, hears my voice, I say it just as Jesus said it. You really have no idea what Jesus said because I say exactly what He did, He sent me. I came down from heaven to do the will of the Lord who sent me. If you believed what Jesus said you would believe what I say because it is the same thing. As He said "If they kept my word, they will also keep yours". The reason is, because they are the same words.

I speak the same words as Jesus did and follow in His footsteps. I teach from the OT as he did. You think of love as man does not like God. Learn the meaning of "Love is what I want not sacrifice ,knowledge of God not holocaust."That is written in scripture.It is not the first time I've used it here. Maybe you've seen it before. You keep saying love is all that matters but it is the love of God that you reject. I am the love of God.
Scripture is revealed to those who eat and drink as the son of man eats and drinks. As scripture says "The son of man comes eating and drinking but people think he is crazy or a drunkard." Remember scripture says; "My servants will eat but you will go hungry, My servants shall drink but you will go thirsty", well, goes to show the servant is the son of man. But what do you think he eats and drinks? What does it mean. It is understood by the son of man but not to the wicked.Here is a scripture that talks to those who refuse to do what is right;

Go and say to this people: Listen carefully, but you shall not understand! Look intently, but you shall know nothing!
You are to make the heart of this people sluggish, to dull their ears and close their eyes; until they repent and turn to me and I will heal them. Then their eyes will see, their ears hear, their heart understand.

"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."

You see, God can make it so people have no understanding. This is why you do not know the fear of the Lord. Even though it isn't written I'm sure Jesus taught this as well because it is part of the law of the Lord and the prophets. You teach against the law and the prophets and Jesus says what happens to those who do so, have a look.

" Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

I am the good shepherd, I know my sheep and my sheep know me,
just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; To these sheep I will give my life.
I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be One flock, One shepherd.
This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.
No one takes it from me, I lay it down freely. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father."
The works I do in my Father's name testify to me.
But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep.

My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Lord's hand. The Lord and I are One.
If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, put faith in the works, so that you may realize that the Lord is in me and I am in the Lord.

 

[luecy7]

I am curious to see how many see any place for this in religion?

Do you think people should have hope in God?

The entity that 'God' points to is not of this Universe. Just as loving a vehicle is NOT the same as loving a person, or trusting a vehicle is NOT the same as trusting a person, or being honest with a vehicle is NOT the same as being honest with a person... so too is your characterization of fear in a thing, NOT the same as fearing a person.

Since you are a self ascribed non-dualist, then keep in mind then that hope and fear are the same, or opposing views of the same thing. If you do not have hope in God then you do not have fear in God. If you have fear in God, then you have hope in God.

As an example: fearing you. To fear you, a person has to trust you by giving you, or letting you have, some power and control. As you have power and control, a person has hopes of how you will use that power, and conversely: a fear of how you will use that power.

There are some who will not, or are not willing for one reason or another, to fear you, and will instead put hand cuffs on you, throw you in prison, or threaten your life. As an example the US government is NOT fearing the government, nor the people, of Iran.

 

[Lunitik]

Do you think people should have hope in God?

I think hope masks reality, it is a way for the mind to avoid here and now.

Hope is naught but a kind of day dream, it is a projection into what you would like in the future... why consider the future when you are in the present? Nothing ever aligns to your desires, you are simply setting yourself up to suffer.

If you go totally into this moment, the future will figure itself out just fine.

 

[Lunitik]

I teach from the OT as he did.

Simply false, he references the OT as I reference his words, but never does he use the OT as an example - in fact frequently he speaks against the rigidity of it, and he is depicted breaking the Sabbath. Jesus has been ruled by the heart, not the OT, and nothing he teaches has any precedent in the OT at all.

He has been crucified exactly for this reason, if he had upheld the tradition the Jews would have accepted him, but instead they killed him. He has said he comes to fulfill the OT, fulfillment means end but he has not destroyed it - he has shown something deeper. If you live through the heart, you will not break the laws which the Jews uphold, yet he does not support the prescribed punishments at all, this is shown in his example towards the whore which he has not stoned.

 

[luecy7]

I think hope masks reality, it is a way for the mind to avoid here and now.

Hope is naught but a kind of day dream, it is a projection into what you would like in the future... why consider the future when you are in the present? Nothing ever aligns to your desires, you are simply setting yourself up to suffer.

If you go totally into this moment, the future will figure itself out just fine.

Do you think anyone should have hope in you?

 

[Lunitik]

Do you think anyone should have hope in you?

I do not think hope is healthy at all.

This moment contains all, you simply have to find that point between the future and past to see it.

Trust is healthy, but hope means you want things to play out a set way.

Trust simply means you accept whatsoever happens.

 

[Princely]

Simply false, he references the OT as I reference his words, but never does he use the OT as an example - in fact frequently he speaks against the rigidity of it, and he is depicted breaking the Sabbath. Jesus has been ruled by the heart, not the OT, and nothing he teaches has any precedent in the OT at all.

He has been crucified exactly for this reason, if he had upheld the tradition the Jews would have accepted him, but instead they killed him. He has said he comes to fulfill the OT, fulfillment means end but he has not destroyed it - he has shown something deeper. If you live through the heart, you will not break the laws which the Jews uphold, yet he does not support the prescribed punishments at all, this is shown in his example towards the whore which he has not stoned.

That is a misconception and quite frankly a lie. Jesus said as I do "As the Father sent me that is how I send you". Jesus upheld the law and the prophets as I do. Read;"In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.What I'm saying there is to spread the words of the prophets which is the law of the Lord, that is doing to others as you would have done to you. That is why the Lord says "Speak the truth to one another". That is why I say "All those who do right shall rise to live." Jesus gave those words to me and I accepted them as he said His true followers would. Apparently you haven't read the book of John. Read; "I revealed your name to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

You see, He gave those same words to those who accept them and follow His teaching. If you noticed He also reveals the Fathers name to them, me. Gods name is a revelation and no one knows it but the son. I know because I act in truth and live in the light.

Follow me and proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God and your treasure will be great in heaven. The only one who's gone up to heaven is the One who came down from there ,the son of man. I am son of man. I am the way, the only way, Jesus and I are One.

He spoke of me when He said;"When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me..... when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.
Whoever receives a prophet because he bears the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is righteous will receive a righteous man's reward.

You have not received any of those rewards as of yet, perhaps you will accept my gift once you find the fear of the Lord. Peace is my gift to you, I do not give it as the world does.

 

[luecy7]

I do not think hope is healthy at all.

This moment contains all, you simply have to find that point between the future and past to see it.

Trust is healthy, but hope means you want things to play out a set way.

Trust simply means you accept whatsoever happens.

Being an extremist is unhealthy: drinking too much water will kill you. Going without water, the same.

You are not comparing trust with hope, you are comparing people with outcomes: trust in people vs hope/fear in an outcome. Trust is in a person, yet you regard hope and fear as being in an outcome instead of in a person. With a person there is always a future outcome, so you could still have hope, fear, and trust despite all former outcomes. After whatsoever happens, then you can reflect on what value the hope or fear was. Since you are full of hope and fear in your own freedom, instead of in others: in the outcome that you define, instead of an outcome defined by others, perhaps you should be doing some reflecting on this.

 

[Thomas]

Have you ever pondered from where this fear comes...

Oh dear ... for one so illumined, at times you are incredibly dull.

Fear in Hebrew is yir'ah, a feminine noun which can mean fear, awe, respect, reverence.

So the first step is to look at the word in context, and if you're going to preach about it, look at the word used in its traditional context.

Having done neither, but simply assumed from your own ignorance, you've got the wrong end of the stick. It's not fear as in quaking in one's boots, rather it's awe, or wonder ...

in a more contemporary context, one might say 'sublime'.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Lunitik]

Oh dear ... for one so illumined, at times you are incredibly dull.

Fear in Hebrew is yir'ah, a feminine noun which can mean fear, awe, respect, reverence.

So the first step is to look at the word in context, and if you're going to preach about it, look at the word used in its traditional context.

Having done neither, but simply assumed from your own ignorance, you've got the wrong end of the stick. It's not fear as in quaking in one's boots, rather it's awe, or wonder ...

in a more contemporary context, one might say 'sublime'.

As others have said in the thread, if something else is intended they should not have used the word 'fear', for fear does not have such meanings as you list. Certainly, many Christians take it quite literally, and this is why there are Christians proclaiming God's hate for various things they don't approve of. Hell, despite not being discussed at all in the OT or NT other than brief references, has become the object of much imagination exactly to instill that fear in people through the ages. So while you call me ignorant, I will have to say you are showing naivety.

What is certain is that the translation validly means fear, and this is the translation used. People believe that those who fear them respect and revere them, even hold them in awe, but this is utterly false. You must look at the times being discussed, leaders led with an iron fist and insisted this was reverence - no, the subjects feared death if they broke any law. It is the same which is shown in the OT, God is shown destroying entire cities for sin, he is shown destroying the entire world too for the same thing. How can you justify that it is not this which is intended?

However you want to take it, Christianity still uses the intimidation technique to gain adherents, threatening God's power to throw all in hell for not complying.

 

[Lunitik]

Being an extremist is unhealthy: drinking too much water will kill you. Going without water, the same.

You are not comparing trust with hope, you are comparing people with outcomes: trust in people vs hope/fear in an outcome. Trust is in a person, yet you regard hope and fear as being in an outcome instead of in a person. With a person there is always a future outcome, so you could still have hope, fear, and trust despite all former outcomes. After whatsoever happens, then you can reflect on what value the hope or fear was. Since you are full of hope and fear in your own freedom, instead of in others: in the outcome that you define, instead of an outcome defined by others, perhaps you should be doing some reflecting on this.

So you are saying you cannot trust existence?

You have asked whether I want people to have hope in me, yet you separate it from trust in a person?

Hope is not useful because it can cause no good outcome, existence doesn't care what you want, what you imagine is best will rarely match existences plan because your view on matters is very limited.

This is not directed at you in particular, it is simply the case that our perspective centers on our self, we cannot see what would be best for a wider spectrum of humanity. Yet, everything we do potentially effects millions, so it is good that hope is rarely actualized.

This will result in discontent and suffering though, you will see things haven't ended up as you'd like.

What is the point of this?

 

[Lunitik]

Jesus upheld the law and the prophets as I do. Read;"In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

I'm afraid you have misunderstood him...

Jesus is saying that the laws and the prophets have said nothing but this, that every law is intended to ensure all treat each other as they'd like to be treated themselves.

Yet, he gives only two laws for his own dispensation: love your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Again this is a statement of the laws, for half are related to God while the other half are related to social rules. Yet he gives no specifics, this is his deeper understanding.

Love is the lord, love is the society, love is the whole universe.

Grow in love, nothing else is important.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Before lunitik, chop wood and carry water;
After lunitk, chop your wood and carry your water.

For God sakes, do your chopping and water carrying!

 

[Lunitik]

Before lunitik, chop wood and carry water;
After lunitk, chop your wood and carry your water.

For God sakes, do your chopping and water carrying!

What is meant by this?

It is because nothing changes on the surface of life, only the center is transformed.

Yet, still people avoid Truth, thinking life will cease as they know it. The classic view of sanyas doesn't help this, yet the only true sanyas is that of the ego itself. Even going to the Himalayas, it is the ego which goes, there is no fundamental change in the person, just an opposite direction.

You have to change your very being, nothing else is necessary.