Is a sense of community and pride creating a smoke screen for Bahai's?

Abdullah

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Peace to all my Bahai brethren! :)

It feels great to see one's fledgling community flourish, especially when it is persecuted in it's homeland Iran and this increases a determination for one's religion and community to thrive

but is such a determination creating a smoke screen from Bahai's looking into the more serious issue of religion which is wether it really is the truth and does it's teachings really make sense?

the reason why i ask this is the Bahai's do say that the Quran was revealed by God; also Bahai is an ofshoot of Islam itself; Abdul Bahai it's founder claimed to be a new Messenger from God if I'm not mistaken

but if the Quran is from God, then i'd urge the Bahai's to look into the scientific findings of the orientalists who say that the Quran remains totally undistorted from it's original, and that corrosponding to the verse in the Quran itself that says that it will be protected till the last day

I'd point them to the verses that say that the Quran will have an external interpretation revealed along with it and the verifiable hadith sciences that prove their authenticity; also this hadith preservation corrosponding with Allah's promise of protecting the Quran [and by extention it's meaning]

then I'd point them to the following unequivical evidence in the Quran and hadith:

033.040: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.


005.003: ... This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam....


the above verse of the Holy Quran is unequivical in stating that there will be no other Prophet after prophet Muhammad [saw]. Reffering to the Prophet Muhammad [saw] as the seal of the prophets we are explicitly told about the termination of prophethood.


the second verse of the Quran draws our attention to the conclusion of revealed religion and the conclusion for ALlah's guidance to mankind. Addition to any complete article can only be an abomination. similarly attempting to add to an allready completed religion will be nothing short of sacrilidge.



what do the Ahadith [Sayings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)] say?:


Verily the day of judgement will not be esatablished untill thirty imposters and liars have arisen, all of them will claim to be a messeneger of ALlah [Muslim]


Verily thrity liars will be born in my ummah, everyone of them will claim to be a prophet though I am the last Prophet and no Prophet will come after me [at-tirmidhi]


the above hadiths warn about thirty liars who will arise before the day of judgement claiming to be messengers of ALlah. A messenger [Rasool] is a prophet who is given a message to deliver to his people, so anyone claiming to be a Messenger of ALlah after the Prophet muhammad [saw] is an imposter


the second hadith informs us about thirty liars who will emerge in the ummah - from amongst the muslims, each claiming to be a Prophet. by mentioning Prophets, this hadith includes messengers. from this we can concldue that there will be no Prophets or messengers after the prophet muhammad [saw] and anyone claiming this is a liar.



what is meant by 'khateman nabiyeen'?


both the Quran and hadith describe the prophet [saw] as khateman nabiyeen. khatam means to finish and nabiyyeen can be translated as Prophets


when we think of the word 'finish'; it can be used it two contexts both of which are applicable to the finality of Prophet Muhammad [saw]. An example would be helpfull at this stage. If a person were to say, 'I have finished the food on my plate', from this sentence one would deduce finish to mean the end of something and it's absense in the future


the second context where finish could be used is when a student says, 'I have finished the examination'; distinct from the first meaning, finished now takes on the meaning that something has been completed or achieved

both of these meanings apply to the prophet muhammad [saw]. a muslim believes that no other prophets will come after prophet muhammad [saw] because he ended Propethood and no messenger will emerge after because the Prophet muhammad [saw] completed Messengership



some more hadiths on the finality of prophethood:


the chain of prophets has come to an end. there shall be no messenger or prophet after me [at-tirmidhi]


the tribes of israel was guided by prophets. when a prophet passed away another prophet succeeded him; but no Prophets will come after me, only caliphs will succeed me [bukhari]


you are related to me as Aaraon was related to Moses [pbuh] but no apostle will come after me [bukhari]


we are the last [ummah] but will precede all on the day of ressurrection except that the book was given to them before us [bukhari]


My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example. a man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beuty, but he left an empty niche in the corner where just one brick was missing. people looked around the building and marvelled at it's beuty, but wondered why one brick was missing from that niche, I am like that one missing brick and i am the last in the line of prophets [bukhari]

regarding the second coming of jesus [pbuh[, he will come as a follower of the Prophet Muhammad [saw] and not as a new Prophet to the nation

my apologies if this all sounded disrespectfull; my intention is only to emphasise some thought provoking evidence :)

Peace to All :)
 
Abdullah ..

Thanks for your post...

I'm not responding to it in it's entirety here because I think you would like to argue about what is revealed in Qur'an and there is a place to perhaps discuss aspects of this in the Comparative studies section:

Comparative Studies - Interfaith forums

or maybe in your own Islamic forum:

Islam - Interfaith forums

while we recognize Qur'an as an authentic repositiry of the Word of God we accept the Writings of Baha'u'llah as the central revealed Word in the Baha'i dispensation.

When I have recently posted in the Islamic forum I am trying to be supportive of Prophet Muhammad and the Qur'an and not argue with you about your positions there.

But part of your post that you have entered I will respond to here:

"It feels great to see one's fledgling community flourish, especially when it is persecuted in it's homeland Iran and this increases a determination for one's religion and community to thrive but is such a determination creating a smoke screen from Bahai's looking into the more serious issue of religion which is wether it really is the truth and does it's teachings really make sense?

the reason why i ask this is the Bahai's do say that the Quran was revealed by God; also Bahai is an ofshoot of Islam itself; Abdul Bahai it's founder claimed to be a new Messenger from God if I'm not mistaken"

The persecution of the Baha'i Faith in the middle east has been going on for well over a hundred years and while some recognition of our Faith has occurred it is still the case so part of being a Baha'i is still unfortunately being suppressed and martyred and that is the truth and for the present cannot be seperated from the reality of being a Baha'i. The "smoke screen" is by those who would ignore the reality of the persecution and suppression of the Faith.

The second part of my response to your statement is that Abdul-Baha is not the Founder of the Baha'i Faith. This honor must go to His Father Baha'u'llah the Prophet Founder of the Baha'i Faith who revealed who He was in the Ridwan Garden of a green isle in the Tigris River near Bagdad around April, 1863.

There are actually what we call Twin Manifestations of God... First the Forerunner the Bab Himself, Siyyid Ali Muhammad Who revealed that He was the Propmised One the Qa'im in May 23, 1844 and Who prophesied the coming of Him Whom God would make manifest, Baha'u'llah.

Again I would expect you to accord the same courtesy here on this Forum that I have extended to you in the Islamic forum...that is, to recognize that the primary purpose here is to provide people with accurate information abour our respective faiths.

Thanking you in advance...!

- Arthur Gregory

For those wanting more information about the persecution of Baha'is see:

http://question.bahai.org/007_1.php
 
thank you for your reply Arthur, very interesting and let me just express my condolences to all Bahai's that are being persecuted; may Allah save you all Just as He did with the children of Israel

peace :)
 
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