The Prophecy of the Scapegoat

[Thomas]

Paul on the other hand, undermines the Law and the prophets, and calls even the angels accursed if they should deem to refute him. (Gal 1:8)

Quite, because his message is the message of Christ, the fulfilment of the promise made to Israel through the Law and the Prophets — that is what the symbolism of the Transfiguration is all about (Mark 9, Matthew 17, Luke 9) — Moses and Elias, who appeared at His side, symbolise the Law and the Prophets respectively.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

Let us not forget, there is a long tradition of Revelation being really the story of the Early Church in Asia wrapped in symbology. This is quite literally how the Armenian, Oriental and Eastern Churches view it. Not prophecy, but history.

Exactly!

It's the West, and especially those with their own axe to grind, who have turned the interpretation of the symbolism into an industry.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Dream]

Your position is based on the assumption that you are of the family of God, whereas there are probably close to 32,000 different denominations, which many might considered you as being a member of the family of the deceived, and that you will "perish everlastingly". Athanasian Creed Or then again, the "many" may perceive you as being of the family of God, and that would be reason for concern as well. (Mt 7:13)

No, but I did begin as a member of one church where we thought we were the best but mostly accepted other christians as long as they were not on the cults lists. We were not the only or the chosen, but we were terrific. I was dedicated completely to serving God and others. I hated sin, and I loved my enemies. I had to leave that congregation after 20 or so years over concerns about some of their practices, and I floated for a few months before I felt called to go back to church. I found a baptist church which I joined, but I began to have doctrinal concerns (which I imagined must be the cause of all the troubles in the world and due to an impoverishment of the gospel). I threw away people for truth and thought that perhaps with the right words from God, a pure gospel, I could accomplish what Christians had failed to accomplish and become a rekindled spirit. Then Christians would be reunited and then the gospel would heal everything. My trade of people for truth was not without its gains, but the losses were far greater.

Through prayer and searching to understand the gospel better, I learned of and joined one of the cult groups. My prayer was answered as I gained a better understanding of the gospel, but this understanding also created doctrinal questions equally urgent and disquieting as previous ones! I learned many things, and through misfortunes and suffering was motivated to sincerely comprehend the Law and the old paths. I found encouragement in them, but while I felt regenerated I still did not see why Christianity had failed to reach everyone nor the solution to complete Jesus work. Living among people with superior Bible study skills and dedicated to keeping truth, I noticed the people didn't seem any superior morally to Christians who had lax study skills. The same prayers were answered or not answered. There were still disputes and dissensions, sometimes caused by disagreements about very complex and amazing Bible concepts. Children disobeyed their parents and teenagers rebelled. The much superior doctrines did not really change the Christians. My own morals didn't seem to be improving, despite my then relatively improved comprehension of Biblical subjects both common and arcane. I found that I was cut off from too many people. God had provided me with many people, but I had got rid of them because they wanted me to believe silly doctrines.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, in general nothing in life can be worth dying for, however aren't we all going to die regardless?

The idea is that the joy was worth multiples of the suffering.

Speaking of cups: I wonder if you see a connection with Psalm 116 here? The Garden of Gethsemane story reminds me of Psalm 116 because there seem to be commonalities between what the psalmist is dealing with and what Jesus is dealing with, but I don't know what the 'Cup of salvation' is to the psalmist. Jesus refers to his suffering as a cup, possibly alluding to this psalm to use it as an emphatic prayer for his own life to be spared. I'm not sure in this psalm what exactly is going on. Does the cup in this palm involve suffering?

To the contrary Dream, in Psalm 16, the Psalmist is talking about the cup of salvation - Psalm 116:13 - and in the Gethsemane, Jesus was trying to get rid of the cup of death. That's an evidence that he had not come to die for no one. And I believe it so because, as a learnt Jew that he was, he knew that it would be to act in contradiction to the Torah.(Exo. 32:33)
Ben
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

The root of the struggle is that everyone should seek to participate in the life of the Divine. If you think you have 'the answer', if you abide by the law of 'love thy neighbour', then naturally you'd seek to pass it on ...

God bless,

Thomas

I don't believe in love for one's neghbour. That's an euphemism for respect. Love is an emotion, and emotions cannot be dictated upon; only controlled by one's intellect if he or she has a strong free will. Respect, yes, it can even be demanded.
Ben

 

[Dream]

To the contrary Dream, in Psalm 16, the Psalmist is talking about the cup of salvation - Psalm 116:13 - and in the Gethsemane, Jesus was trying to get rid of the cup of death. That's an evidence that he had not come to die for no one. And I believe it so because, as a learnt Jew that he was, he knew that it would be to act in contradiction to the Torah.(Exo. 32:33)
Ben

Thanks for your response on that. We went off of the topic for a while, but it was worthwhile for me. I moved towards a decision about what I am able to do and thought of some work I can do to resolve the problems I've seen in church. What I can do is small, not notorious or controversial. This does not mean I have a problem with your critical skepticism or investigation into causes of the holocausts. I don't have a bone to pick with showme or anyone who is sincerely trying to fix problems, and I did not intend to derail this conversation. For a long while I've been stuck, like a scratched record, on deciding what I can and should do. I've been very focused on understanding History and identifying sources of problems. Now I feel there is a change for me, so I can move on. I know what my limitations are and what I can do.

 

[Servetus]

Let us not forget, there is a long tradition of Revelation being really the story of the Early Church in Asia wrapped in symbology. This is quite literally how the Armenian, Oriental and Eastern Churches view it. Not prophecy, but history.

On the other hand, I recall having read some especially Russian Orthodox writings which were published immediately prior to and soon after the Bolshevik Revolution. That corpus of literature drew heavily upon the Revelation of St. John as predictive of the rise of Antichrist (read as Communism) which the authors, usually "White Russians," deposed nobility and clergy, particularly, were then witnessing and doing their best to describe.

The Revelation is a very fluid text and to the extent that it correlates to the Book of Daniel, with the latter's view of the rise and fall of kingdoms both past and yet to come, it seems as much a book of the future, even of our own, as of history.

Serv

 

[Ben Masada]

Thanks for your response on that. We went off of the topic for a while, but it was worthwhile for me. I moved towards a decision about what I am able to do and thought of some work I can do to resolve the problems I've seen in church. What I can do is small, not notorious or controversial. This does not mean I have a problem with your critical skepticism or investigation into causes of the holocausts. I don't have a bone to pick with showme or anyone who is sincerely trying to fix problems, and I did not intend to derail this conversation. For a long while I've been stuck, like a scratched record, on deciding what I can and should do. I've been very focused on understanding History and identifying sources of problems. Now I feel there is a change for me, so I can move on. I know what my limitations are and what I can do.

Nothing happened. Just keep your mind open.
Ben