What do you really know?

[ResistETIntervention]

Four breaths per minute might not be the correct speed for everyone, and three times a day (or even twice a day, like you said the first time) might be a bit much.

Four breaths per minute is, of course, just a guideline. I take fewer breaths per minute. The idea is to take deep breaths very slowly before starting. So you are encouraged to adjust that rate. Also, with your eyes closed, try focusing on an imaginary or physical point during stillness. It will help you focus. When learning to still your mind, initially, even five minutes may seem like half an hour. However, if you persist, you will be able to focus better and sit still for a longer period at a time.

In stillness, all things can be known. I have experienced timelessness in stillness. I wish for everyone to be able to experience that indescribable state.

 

[seattlegal]

Hence, it is crucial that we are able to distinguish what we know from what we believe, what we think we know, what we hope for, what we prefer, what we fear, or what we value.

Have you considered the psychological effect of this practice you propose? The word belief is related to the word beloved. If you nag yourself 3 times a day about anything, how is that going to affect your emotional state (belief) regarding it?

So I sincerely ask that you earnestly ask the question to yourself for a few days before responding. I cordially ask that those who would like to use the thread to fool around start their own threads. I assure you, this is not the time to fool around or joke around.

I would suggest trying mindfully doing something else (like mindfully eating an orange, or something) 3 times a day in order to observe your change in attitude towards the object of your mindfulness meditation before turning the technique directly on your mind. jmho

 

[Snoopy]

I asked the question "What is the essence of all religions?" in another thread in the hopes that people of different faith traditions would, through thought-provoking discussion, come to the conclusion that God initiated all religions

So you asked a question, the answer to which you already believe you know the answer. Why the need for "thought-provoking discussion" therefore? This seems disingenuous.

I reject your foregone conclusion.

 

[pseudonymous]

amen and thus the jocularity feeding the tummy rather than feeding the agenda of the self proclaimed saviors of the unwashed. great tasting food is as good a deity, and is not absent unless one chooses not to indulge.

i say relax and enjoy the fact that we all come to our own truths at our own pace...makes for a better tasting soup than just one ingredient. man that was one of the earliest lessons wasn't it? (that the fool often was the best teacher?)

if you stand on the shoreline and throw pebbles into the pond all you gonna get is ripples. if you immerse yourself into the community (interfaith forums) you will notice that 'saviors' come and go like the seasons here - usually someone under 50 posts that want to pound their square peg into someone's round hole...I know, I tried to save these heathens ages ago and realized they did not need to be saved - or the Earth for that matter.

notice the patience offered back? notice the lack of 'oohs' and 'ahhs' to your beliefs? these are not neophytes. these are your neighbors and they, too have lived interesting journeys. share what worked for you - don't insist it has to for us, too. you lose your audience that way...again, a really early lesson.

depriving the brain of oxygen is bound to make for interesting effects. in fact altering the brain is the basis for a lot of entry level beliefs and practices. some breathe as little as possible, some drop LSD...and some realize they are not their brain's perceptions.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

I am a Camera.
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MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I follow along side my contemporaries.
I have learnt to follow closely as the waves of times wash over our faces.
I do as I see and ask few questions.
I hardly flail about as I progress toward nourishment.
I have seen neighbors and kin devour for sustenance.
I have been drawn to mate.
I have seen Mini-‘ME’s from cousins abound.
I have sought the heavens and wondered of myths of higher life forms when the twinkling lights lure one away out of the school.

I am a fish ---all I know is “Fish Things” ---and I think I’d prefer better.

We’ll see ---I mean “I’ll wait and see”.

Is it forms we seek?
Is it Persons (company) we seek?

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I see that the question implies and encompasses:
Subjective and/or limited purviews of Human Consciousness ---and the limits of cultivated intelligence, discriminating sensibilities, worldly experience, emotional & inter-personal know-how
“What do I know?” —versus— “What do I think?”

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
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I know what I know; and I know what I don’t know; and prefer to as much of nothing as I can get away with.

Aside, from “What do I know?” ---there is “What do I do?”

As in “How do you do?”

The sphere of influence that MY OWN “What I know” ---is limited to the stratum of life I live.

What do I know = MC2

I may know something BUT I do not own any of it.

I know bugs & worms and microbes by the billons will ooze from my corpse when I die.

I know I breathe during sleep; and digest foodstuffs; and pump blood through my veins; and I lust to hump; and I gorge my tongue; and I comfort myself in swathing blankets; I wash away grime and I run from thunder ---all of which is afforded me like a rich son’s room service at hotel owned by his father.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, and wore it out.

I know I do not need saving, and what I know or do not know is my own business. That said, or typed rather, I know I enjoy Reese's peanut butter cups more than Eastern philosophy.

I see this as False. IOW, you are fibbing.

You are mis-representing:

"what I (Pseudo) know or do not know"

"I enjoy" is the answer.

As the Vedas and thus, the sages say:

The Mind (manah) is invested with one function, 'to accept and to reject'.

The Intelligence (bodhi) is invested with one function, 'to descriminate between "this and that" ---(ultimately, in the absolute context, 'to descriminate between What is Matter and What is Spirit)'.

The Ego (ahankara) is invested with one function, To Be whatever One wants to be.

***********************************************

I know that My Pain & Sufferring and/or MY enjoyments and desires are MINE ALONE.

When I act ---I act as a party of One ---I know that the field of MY acts are recorded and tallied ---I DO NOT know my fate ---by I am assured . . . that it is my own & mine alone.

We Know we are Individual, indivisable INDIVIDUAL(S).

We are our own Individual POV.

No two POVs can occupy the same space at the same time ---AND--- No vector point of individual-POV can be desolved and merged into another.

We are all POVs in the churning Material Washing Machine Spin Cycle of the Cosmos, from top to bottom.

There is NO ESCAPE from being an Individual, indivisable INDIVIDUAL POV.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

inquisitiveness.

What?! It's NOT the Spanish Inquisition.

those who would like to use the thread to fool around this is not the time to fool around or joke around.

Okay who's fooling around?

Come on. Everybody Hand over those fooleries. just place them on the table while we turn our backs ---no questions asked.

I expect a pile of thomfoolery on the desk. Or no cookies and milk for anyone ---except the anti-fooleryists.

 

[Etu Malku]

if you stand on the shoreline and throw pebbles into the pond all you gonna get is ripples.

If you throw enough pebbles you'll end up standing in the pond.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

I have experienced timelessness in stillness. I wish for everyone to be able to experience that indescribable state.

This state is easily accessable via old school sitting silent mantra meditation.

It is a sure thing. What esle would be expected?

The "Bliss" that is famously harkened to in similar descriptions ---is NOT "a State of being nor heightened consciousness etc" ---it is the halting of the preoccupation with ideas & desires of the Fickle Mind ---the mirror of the soul-being's consciousness is allowed to shine through "when the dust is cleared from the Mirror" or, "when the black clouds are hovering close to the ground, the bright flames are obscured"

"Silent presence" allows 'Ananda' (ananda means Bliss.
'Bliss' is a constituent component of the nature of the soul's being).

Meditation in search of the Ananda Nature of one's own soul involves passing by the fickle minds attention deficits.

A person with A.D.D. may not be able to do classic silent meditation --never mind having an interest in such pursuits.

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

So who are you and where are you bound?

Do you really know?

If the rest is to keep you from being bored along the way, then have you come into this world to take up space and use up resources?


I encourage you and others to try the following twice a day for a week:

1. Go into a quiet room and sit comfortably.
2. Ask the question sincerely: “What do I really know?”
3. Then breathe in through your nose and out through your almost closed mouth for a couple of minutes, taking at least 15 seconds for each breath.
4. Enter quietude for 15 minutes. Don't ask any questions or try to answer any questions. Enter stillness.

When you have tried this for 15 minutes, twice a day for a week, then return to the forum and answer the question again.

The Gnose knows....

When you have stepped through that stillness into light, let me know and we will have even more conversation....

You needn't convince me of the need to put the ego in it's place - as long as you are not telling me to dispose of it.....

And i do indeed have a slightly differing method:
I choose to acknowledge the ego as being a useful tool, and choose to pay attention instead - understanding the chain of reaction which has taken it to this place.
That requires hearing and paying closer attention to the ramblings of the mind - until they are ramblings no longer; simply concerns which may be set down for short periods....
THAT, IMOFFO, is a much more profitable direction.

As a result of long practice it occurs to me to point out that thoughts are THINGS. They have form and structure in other spheres. They DO NOT simply go away because we have developed the ability to "Not See" them...
The idea that one should "suppress" their thoughts to achieve a harmonious state is patently ridiculous on it's face.... it is the noise which must be understood and dealt with...

The idea that meditation is some magical process needs to be dispelled.....
It is a way of achieving harmony within one's self - because you have taken the time and given the effort to seek a silent place to explore who you REALLY are.
It is grueling psychological work which throws you all off balance for periods at a time - and the point is to get to where you can look at it ALL, understand it, and remain in a harmonious state and be productive the whole time........

I was only being halfway playful with the Navel comment - this is how one ends up isolated in mental realms..... THERE IS NO CREATING REQUIRED OR DESIRED IN THIS PROCESS - the whole point is to clear away all the unconscious creating we have already been engaged in for the years of our life..... follow it all backwards to it's point of origin.... a painful and effort laden exercise..... which brings TRUE REWARDS.....

I am not shouting.... I have capitalized for emphasis.... I want those words to stand out clearly...
There are entirely too many pointless ( or harmful ) techniques out there....
Truth is always simple.... Effort moves you forward.... Rest and fall back....

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

I know it is Shatner's world and we just live in it...

He was simply another incarnation of Chuck Norris.....
( at least that's how they'll see it in 1000 years... )

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Are you certain you are aware of your Self?

One of the meanings of consciousness, according to the Webster’s New World College dictionary, is the totality of one’s thoughts, feelings, and impressions. Are you certain you are aware of the totality of such? What constitutes the basis of your understanding of yourself and your world?

You listed a few items stating that you believe so and so, you do not believe so and so, and you doubt so and so. Please note that I asked you “What do you really know?” I did not ask you “What do you really believe, or don’t believe, or doubt?” Beliefs are established on what is wished for, not on what is actually occurring and not on what is genuine.

One week didn’t pass since I posted a response requesting people to keep their minds still after earnestly asking the question for a week, and then return to answer the question. So, I presume you didn’t try the practice I asked you to.

I AM is an experiential state - how would YOU explain it?

For me it involves the Self, Others, and Divinity all at the same time....
Gee - that puts us in the Executive suite, doesn't it?
with PERSONALITY.... which is what displays who "we" are.....
so yes, I'm that specific "Me" who annoys you on the net - as opposed to the "You" who thinks I am missing the point.....
But we ARE one and the same.... yes, we are..... we're connected.....

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Four breaths per minute is, of course, just a guideline. I take fewer breaths per minute. The idea is to take deep breaths very slowly before starting. So you are encouraged to adjust that rate. Also, with your eyes closed, try focusing on an imaginary or physical point during stillness. It will help you focus. When learning to still your mind, initially, even five minutes may seem like half an hour. However, if you persist, you will be able to focus better and sit still for a longer period at a time.

In stillness, all things can be known. I have experienced timelessness in stillness. I wish for everyone to be able to experience that indescribable state.

I REALLY DO want to understand the viewpoint that finds rest in entropy...

Our Creator is by Definition ACTIVITY....

I only want to know this ego who is so Tired,sick,slow,blah,blah,blah enough to know how to get the heck out of here....
I could care less how tired my body is... that's how it works here....
my mind is indefatigable... It does NOT desire to sleep... it does NOT desire to hide away from "everything"...
I want to see it all, i want to know about it all, and the better look i get - the more i want to discover more.....
We mustn't confuse the process with the destination...

But I have heard what you say so many times, I understand where it comes from...

as well - I understand your FRUSTRATION..... something inside you KNOWS this is to be shared - does it not?
All will find it in their time.... doesn't help - but it's true....

 

[Etu Malku]

Meditation is a simple process of Trance Induction and Trance Induction is a way to Alter Consciousness, but there are far more effective ways we know of today to Alter Consciousness than meditation.

- from my "unfinished" book Tarkhem
During trance state a person will be concentrating more on his inner self.
During a trance state a person will get an opportunity to think about himself and make positive changes in the outlook towards life.
Trance is generated using cognitive loops and involves neurological mechanisms and psychological implications.

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Meditation is a simple process of Trance Induction and Trance Induction is a way to Alter Consciousness, but there are far more effective ways we know of today to Alter Consciousness than meditation.

Yes, some of which has consequences similar to drug use - but it is a matter for free will.... and discrimination....

 

[Bhaktajan II]

I choose to acknowledge the ego as being a useful tool, and choose to pay attention instead - understanding the chain of reaction which has taken it to this place.
That requires hearing and paying closer attention to the ramblings of the mind - until they are ramblings no longer; simply concerns which may be set down for short periods.... THAT, IMOFFO, is a much more profitable direction.

Novelists & Screenplay writers need to know the Human Condition.

As a result of long practice it occurs to me to point out that thoughts are THINGS. They have form and structure in other spheres. They DO NOT simply go away because we have developed the ability to "Not See" them...

Of course, "Seeing them" thoughts is profitable to thoughfull persons.

Other folks, not too much.

The idea that one should "suppress" their thoughts to achieve a harmonious state is patently ridiculous on it's face.... it is the noise which must be understood and dealt with...

"PATENTED" --??? This work is associated with Title of Ownership and Revenues ---very profitable.

IE:
There is a man standing in a field of grass. Thousands of onlookers roar at events 100 yards away from the man. The man too looks wher the crowd looks. The man Paces and waits for any attenion thrown his way. After a few hours of pacing in the sunny grass field, suddenly it happens.

A ball is sent sailing through the sky into the rays of the Sun, the ball descends toward him. The man shields his eyes and FOCUS his attention ---he automatically "suppresses" all the distractions of the world and his thoughts of Gloriy and thoughts of his expert prowess . . . he cathes the ball and and returns to his post . . . that's how its done,

It is grueling psychological work which throws you all off balance for periods at a time - and the point is to get to where you can look at it ALL, understand it, and remain in a harmonious state and be productive the whole time........

One's own thoughts and stubburn alligence to them require "grueling psychological work"????

Nay, It's one's own lusts (with little a "L") and desires and many-times, and one's sense-of-grandure that accrue a sentance that requires grueling psychological penitance.

this is how one ends up isolated in mental realms..... THERE IS NO CREATING REQUIRED OR DESIRED IN THIS PROCESS - the whole point is to clear away all the unconscious creating we have already been engaged in for the years of our life . . . Truth is always simple....

Well said.

Effort moves you forward.... Rest and fall back

No Pain No Gain Maxim. It's a mandate of existence.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Meditation is a simple process of Trance Induction and Trance Induction is a way to Alter Consciousness, but there are far more effective ways we know of today to Alter Consciousness than meditation.

"Trance" What the hell is Trance?

I have lived long enough to expect that I would have learnt in a multitude of various ways, What is the definition of "Trance"?

But I do not know what that is.

I read the papers and the history books.

I read that Boston Red Sox fans beat up a New York Yankee Fan in Boston
and of course, vis versa:
Video: Female Red Sox Fan Gets Kicked In The Face By Yankees Fan | Complex

No Trance going on here.
Maybe its more an Orgasmic sort of mind thing going on, by everyone.

Vicarious pleasure(s) un-limited.

Also, I read, after the Funeral for the newly divorced ex-wife of the american Robert F. Kennedy Jr ---many attendees ate at McDonalds on their way back home. Now that's a "Trance" man! The corpse tastes like chicken--- if you SEASON it right.

OKAY. LET'S BREAK IT UP. EVERYONE GO HOME. NOTHING TO LOOK AT HERE. EXCEPT IF YOU GET CABLE NEWS...

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

IE:
There is a man standing in a field of grass. Thousands of onlookers roar at events 100 yards away from the man. The man too looks wher the crowd looks. The man Paces and waits for any attenion thrown his way. After a few hours of pacing in the sunny grass field, suddenly it happens.

A ball is sent sailing through the sky into the rays of the Sun, the ball descends toward him. The man shields his eyes and FOCUS his attention ---he automatically "suppresses" all the distractions of the world and his thoughts of Gloriy and thoughts of his expert prowess . . . he cathes the ball and and returns to his post . . . that's how its done,

While I DO realize what you are saying....
I see a difference between "getting in the zone" and concentrating, and discovering a major psychological motivator within yourself that you were entirely unaware of because it comes from other incarnations, to be two completely unrelated experiences...

One's own thoughts and stubburn alligence to them require "grueling psychological work"????

Nay, It's one's own lusts (with little a "L") and desires and many-times, and one's sense-of-grandure that accrue a sentance that requires grueling psychological penitance.

Of course, it goes without saying that the suffering is well deserved....
Does not change the fact that in order to be here - there's some pretty nasty stuff a soul has to deal with.... nature of the game...

No Pain No Gain Maxim. It's a mandate of existence.

even when that existence is not in a physical framework - if things are getting easier - you are coasting....

 

[seattlegal]

Meditation is a simple process of Trance Induction and Trance Induction is a way to Alter Consciousness, but there are far more effective ways we know of today to Alter Consciousness than meditation.-

from my "unfinished" book Tarkhem​

During trance state a person will be concentrating more on his inner self.
During a trance state a person will get an opportunity to think about himself and make positive changes in the outlook towards life.
Trance is generated using cognitive loops and involves neurological mechanisms and psychological implications.​

Oh, you mean that is what I was doing back while I first started investigating my PMS? {I've always referred to it as 'drunken gung-fu style meditation, as trying to do 'real' insight meditation while under the influence of nasty ol' hormones is quite difficult.} *shrugs*

 

[pseudonymous]

If you throw enough pebbles you'll end up standing in the pond.

if you end up standing in the pond you will be all wet...with no place to dry off.