radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Are any two conceptions (notions, thoughts, models) of G-d (from atheism to monotheism to panentheism) the same? For any two individuals? for any one individual over time?
Open question
- Thread starter radarmark
- Start date
Interesting question..... And I contemplate the number of faces the hindu give to the one....
G!d is like a snowflake, one principle, yet different when each of us looks through our lens.
goosebumps.
G!d is like a snowflake, one principle, yet different when each of us looks through our lens.
goosebumps.
Ecumenist
Well-Known Member
Reluctantly, radar, I would step forward to say yes, I think in my case this somewhat applies. My earliest conceptions of `God' must include at least three incidents or influences in my life which affected me profoundly, by and earlier than the age of three. From there, another half dozen or so equally have shaped & determined - not the outside *limits* of my beliefs or belief system, but rather, its bare `minimum.'
I would list a few of these influences, stressing that at no point, even in childhood, have I ever maintained or believed that God was, is or could be one individual ... although I am not a Pantheist, or even a Panentheist by usual definitions. I am a Hylozoist, I believe in God Transcendent, God Immanent and God everywhere `in-between.' This, in short, is the only Trinity I know or could imagine the intelligent person believing in {after due diligence, experience & research}.
Any questions about the evolution of my understanding?
Those three events or factors I named as being so influential are as follows:
Nor do I disregard or think poorly of SAGUNA Brahman, as without the same, NIRguna Brahman remains simply ~ space fluff.
In other words, we NEED points of contact with, and increasingly in our Journey of Self/Other/God-exploration, points in our lives where the Divine is anchored ~ within out thoughts, within our heart and within our daily Lives. We need to be working towards Love-in-ACTION, not Love in the abstract ~ while recognizing that without its Soul, even `good actions' are really not why we are here.
God has expressions, as manifold and various in our Cosmos as the grains of sand upon the beach, and literally, as the ATOMs which compose that Cosmos. Remember that *each snowflake* is unique, despite being made of the same WATER of Life ...
... and thus we have a poetic Prototype, or Template, for our little lives ~ as even for the Grander Beings we are, each of us, slowly evolving into. So the mightiest Oak Tree, over time, with its humble beginnings in tiny acorn.
And so my fondness for the insight of an Alexander Pope, who tells us {as any hylozoist with his/her heart/eyes/ears/mind open can observe}:
The Whole is GREATER than the sum of its parts ...
... which one Teacher put to us thus:
"The Greater can ALWAYS include the Lesser," ~ and voila! You've got a head start!
Here, at any rate, are some of those ideas or keys which are central to my worldview and `take' on God. Yet my point is, since I put God Transcendent on the other side of mind, on the other `side' of my concepts & insights, even my moments of greatest Samadhi and of the Loving-Kind ... what, then, does that leave by way of `room' for God ~ both in my life, in the lives of others & the world at large, and certainly in the in-between where I assert & affirm that God verily dwells {Immanently, latently} within *every atom* and thus also in EVERY confluence, concurrence or aggregate, of atoms?
It leaves ... A LOT ... of room, lol! That's the short answer.
God, in my experience, is now, always has been and always shall be ~ a God of LOVE, of PURPOSE and of Intelligent CO-Creativity. It means we are not divorced from God in any of these capacities and in our True Essence. My own Journey, then, naturally enough {to me} involves sharing something of these Qualities ... as they exist within me, and within all people. True Education, via the Christ and the Great Ones, involves the elicitation and amplification, or emphasis upon ~ precisely the Prajnaparamita, and the Royal Road to the same Great Goal ... call this by whatever name you wish, in whatever tradition, with whatever motif, individual descriptive factors, rites & etc. Anyone with a willingness to open his eyes, can read the signs. This, I have always insisted, and will always maintain!
And so I'll close with `O Hidden Life' by Annie Besant, and look forward to what others have to share!
NAMASKAR
I would list a few of these influences, stressing that at no point, even in childhood, have I ever maintained or believed that God was, is or could be one individual ... although I am not a Pantheist, or even a Panentheist by usual definitions. I am a Hylozoist, I believe in God Transcendent, God Immanent and God everywhere `in-between.' This, in short, is the only Trinity I know or could imagine the intelligent person believing in {after due diligence, experience & research}.
Any questions about the evolution of my understanding?
Those three events or factors I named as being so influential are as follows:
- An occult experience at age 3
- An out-of-body experience of importance, age 3 or earlier
- The Lutheran Pastor & also the church congregation of my childhood
- Discovery of Buddhism & Theosophy by age 17
- Direct experience of the `etheric double' and subtle aura by the same age
- Membership in the Theosphical Society & visit to the TS HQ in Chicago ~ age 21
- The influence of college girlfriends {one of them Catholic} with culmination in a Grad school relationship of note
- Involvement with Tibetan Buddhist teachings, meditation & Dharma Centers ~ college onward
- Invitation to & participation in an esoteric study group {three, over the years}, Alice Bailey tradition ~ college onward
- Re-acquaintance with & participation in an Egoic Group, or `Occult Family' of Servers, during college & onward
- An insight or two, ages 16 onward, either during an LSD trip, or possibly high
- The far more weighty individual encounters, discussions & other types of telepathic or spiritual rapport ~ across 22+ yrs [and beginning at age 3, as mentioned above] ~ with NO drugs or lack of clarity involved
- One specific encounter in college, an overshadowing & Samadhi, technically two in # w/same Mahatma, different foci
- Recognition from ages 16 onward of dozens of kindred Souls, often by former or co-incarnations, else by current Initiatory standing
- Rare & precious opportunities to sit `At the Feet of the Masters' via their Initiate Teachers in the world today, on several occasions
- The proving of all that I might otherwise have held near & dear as a SOUL ~ via Service alongside co-Disciples & Aspirants, age 21 onward
- Buddhic/Intuitive Insights & specific Revelations as these occur, collectively shaping & shifting my understanding as many levels or octaves higher & forward as I've been able to allow!
Nor do I disregard or think poorly of SAGUNA Brahman, as without the same, NIRguna Brahman remains simply ~ space fluff.
In other words, we NEED points of contact with, and increasingly in our Journey of Self/Other/God-exploration, points in our lives where the Divine is anchored ~ within out thoughts, within our heart and within our daily Lives. We need to be working towards Love-in-ACTION, not Love in the abstract ~ while recognizing that without its Soul, even `good actions' are really not why we are here.
God has expressions, as manifold and various in our Cosmos as the grains of sand upon the beach, and literally, as the ATOMs which compose that Cosmos. Remember that *each snowflake* is unique, despite being made of the same WATER of Life ...
... and thus we have a poetic Prototype, or Template, for our little lives ~ as even for the Grander Beings we are, each of us, slowly evolving into. So the mightiest Oak Tree, over time, with its humble beginnings in tiny acorn.
And so my fondness for the insight of an Alexander Pope, who tells us {as any hylozoist with his/her heart/eyes/ears/mind open can observe}:
All are but parts of One stupendous Whole
Whose body Nature is and God the Soul
Compare with the Hermetic Axiom: `As ABOVE, so Below' plus the axiom that:Whose body Nature is and God the Soul
The Whole is GREATER than the sum of its parts ...
... which one Teacher put to us thus:
"The Greater can ALWAYS include the Lesser," ~ and voila! You've got a head start!
Here, at any rate, are some of those ideas or keys which are central to my worldview and `take' on God. Yet my point is, since I put God Transcendent on the other side of mind, on the other `side' of my concepts & insights, even my moments of greatest Samadhi and of the Loving-Kind ... what, then, does that leave by way of `room' for God ~ both in my life, in the lives of others & the world at large, and certainly in the in-between where I assert & affirm that God verily dwells {Immanently, latently} within *every atom* and thus also in EVERY confluence, concurrence or aggregate, of atoms?
It leaves ... A LOT ... of room, lol! That's the short answer.
God, in my experience, is now, always has been and always shall be ~ a God of LOVE, of PURPOSE and of Intelligent CO-Creativity. It means we are not divorced from God in any of these capacities and in our True Essence. My own Journey, then, naturally enough {to me} involves sharing something of these Qualities ... as they exist within me, and within all people. True Education, via the Christ and the Great Ones, involves the elicitation and amplification, or emphasis upon ~ precisely the Prajnaparamita, and the Royal Road to the same Great Goal ... call this by whatever name you wish, in whatever tradition, with whatever motif, individual descriptive factors, rites & etc. Anyone with a willingness to open his eyes, can read the signs. This, I have always insisted, and will always maintain!
And so I'll close with `O Hidden Life' by Annie Besant, and look forward to what others have to share!
O Hidden Life, vibrant in every atom;
O Hidden Light, shining in every creature;
O Hidden Love, embracing all in Oneness;
May all who feel themselves as one with Thee,
Know they are therefore one with every other.
O Hidden Light, shining in every creature;
O Hidden Love, embracing all in Oneness;
May all who feel themselves as one with Thee,
Know they are therefore one with every other.
NAMASKAR
Ecumenist
Well-Known Member
N
nijjhar
Guest
Hi Brother,
Why you write God as G-d? Are you frightened of God? No wonder when Christ Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God, you spiritually blind Jewish people jumped at Him and killed Him under the Law of Blasphemy when you yourselves were Hypocrites = Blasphers?
Are you a Jew or I am presuming it to be so?
Christ Jesus was a Royal King of the Royal Kingdom of God and not the King of the Kings an Emperor.
Why you write God as G-d? Are you frightened of God? No wonder when Christ Jesus proclaimed to be the Son of God, you spiritually blind Jewish people jumped at Him and killed Him under the Law of Blasphemy when you yourselves were Hypocrites = Blasphers?
Are you a Jew or I am presuming it to be so?
Christ Jesus was a Royal King of the Royal Kingdom of God and not the King of the Kings an Emperor.
Ecumenist
Well-Known Member
Wow, there are quite a few people I know who would take offense at this, and otherwise prove that YOU may not know who's spiritually blind, and who's not.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
No, I honor the tradition of H-s or H-r name being not spoken out loud. am not Jewish (though I proudly have Jews in my heredity). Your statement is an offensive, insensitive, and immoral statement--my G-d is a G-d of love and justice, not hatred and racism (as obviously yours is). I believe holding that position de3means both you and whatever G-d you worship. Look at my homepage (if you have enough brains to figure out how to use the site). I am a Christian, a member of the Religious Society of Friends.
See the above comment.
No, Chr-st Jesus is the everliving Parousia, which the true believer (regardless of religion) can percipience at any time and any place.
Why is it that holier than thou folks act so unholy?
A Cup Of Tea
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Wow, there are quite a few people I know who would take offense at this, and otherwise prove that YOU may not know who's spiritually blind, and who's not.
I don't get it...have you missed all of skinkers posts? You don't seem very offended when he say the same things.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
If that is meant towards me, it is not holiness I claim, only acceptance. But I do not have to tolerate the bigot (sorry, bigots are bigots are bigots). Nor do I have to pander to the (IMHO) just plain stupid.
A Cup Of Tea
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I doubt it was directed to you, but to nijjhar, who here show his anti-semitic qualities I didn't see in the other thread.
A
AdvaitaZen
Guest
I think a better question is whether any conception of God can ever actually describe God.
Our concepts always make God something smaller than us, for it fits within our imagination. In reality, what we believe ourselves to be exists in what is called God, including all thoughts about God.
The human mind cannot fathom the infinite, and exists utterly in time so eternity is untouchable by it.
Our concepts always make God something smaller than us, for it fits within our imagination. In reality, what we believe ourselves to be exists in what is called God, including all thoughts about God.
The human mind cannot fathom the infinite, and exists utterly in time so eternity is untouchable by it.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
All hindus do not say that it is one.
What is a son of God? We have many here in India who proclaim themselves to be the God Mighty himself, i.e., father of people like Jesus. 'Being' and 'proclaiming' are two different things. Mohammad proclaimed to be a prophet/messenger of Allah, Bahaullah proclaimed himself to be a prophet/manifestation of God, so did Joseph Smith of the Mormons. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyyas proclaimed to be the Mahdi (Returning Jesus), and George Koresh perhaps proclaimed himself to be the Jesus. This is a very frequent happening in religions. One can proclaim oneself to be anything, and no proof required. Would you believe if I said I am Gandhi reborn? People should not go just by proclaimations.
Ecumenist
Well-Known Member
"by their fruits, ye shall know them"
Yes, I am offended when pretty much anyone talks shit about others, even if I have been known to sometimes do this. I mean, come on. I live in America. We did not even elect a crack-smoking, dope-toking, AWOL/DUI-sporting JACKASS for President ... yet Dubya ended up in that Office ~ not once, but TWICE, nonetheless.
Sure it's fun to pretend he was the antichrist, even though the latter is probably smart enough to read a queue-card, or otherwise figure out what to do in the event of a terrorist attack, rather than just sit there dumbfounded, reading children stories. Sorry, PRETENDING to read children's stories.
But frankly, dubya was an idiot, and the whole debacle will simply remain one of the saddest, most embarrassing episodes in American or world history. It would just not be fair to scapegoat dumbass bush and pretend that he was more significant in the whole affair ... than any plastic puppet would have been. Now isn't that so.
I mean, why give him that sort of attention.
And the same is true for a whole group of people (whether united by the bonds of religion or ethnicity) who reject the Messiah. I know a lot of secularists who do the same ... and surely they will be more open to the scientific PROOFs for the existence of God, the afterlife, rebirth and so on ~ than the closed-minded religious freaks who really can't see past the nose on their own face, or bomb abortion clinics, or whatever.
Ahem.
Yes, I am offended when pretty much anyone talks shit about others, even if I have been known to sometimes do this. I mean, come on. I live in America. We did not even elect a crack-smoking, dope-toking, AWOL/DUI-sporting JACKASS for President ... yet Dubya ended up in that Office ~ not once, but TWICE, nonetheless.
Sure it's fun to pretend he was the antichrist, even though the latter is probably smart enough to read a queue-card, or otherwise figure out what to do in the event of a terrorist attack, rather than just sit there dumbfounded, reading children stories. Sorry, PRETENDING to read children's stories.
But frankly, dubya was an idiot, and the whole debacle will simply remain one of the saddest, most embarrassing episodes in American or world history. It would just not be fair to scapegoat dumbass bush and pretend that he was more significant in the whole affair ... than any plastic puppet would have been. Now isn't that so.
I mean, why give him that sort of attention.
And the same is true for a whole group of people (whether united by the bonds of religion or ethnicity) who reject the Messiah. I know a lot of secularists who do the same ... and surely they will be more open to the scientific PROOFs for the existence of God, the afterlife, rebirth and so on ~ than the closed-minded religious freaks who really can't see past the nose on their own face, or bomb abortion clinics, or whatever.
Ahem.