Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Hello Bandit and welcome
You dont see him as God but you see him as God manifested in the flesh? How is it that you dont accept his being God if he is God in the flesh?
"I believe Jesus is all the titles"
MIGHTY GOD: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
WORD: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
I am interested in how Jesus was "disobedient" in a commandment.
adam ~da = man, mankind
If Jesus who is the first and last Adam ,which I agree is a name for Jesus in the bible, if Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. How can we reason that God sinned? Adam, the man, sinned and thus created the fallen nature of men.
Lets study this
Matthew 28:19 ‘baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.’ *Note that the word ‘name’ is singular, showing that all three Persons are one Being.
As the Creator Colossians 1:16-17 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
The NT states that the Jesus is the Creator of all things. For instance, the author of Hebrews writes:
Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12 But about the Son he says… ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
The author has the Father addressing the Son as the actual Creator of the cosmos. The author applies to the Son an OT passage which refers to Yahweh’s work in creation:
Psalm 102:24-27 “‘O my God,’ I say, ‘take me not hence in the midst of my days, thou whose years endure throughout all generations!’ Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away; but thou art the same, and thy years have no end.”
the OT says somewhere else that Yahweh ALONE stretched out the heavens:
Job 9:7-8 He speaks to the sun and it does not shine; he seals off the light of the stars. He ALONE stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.”
For Hebrews to write that the Son personally laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the work of his hands means that the author truly believed that the Son was Yahweh God (yet not the Father), the very eternal Creator himself!
Yahweh God created the heavens with his own hands and he alone stretched them out. The Son created the heavens with his own hands.Therefore we can conclude that the Son is Yahweh God.
He changed the water into wine, creating something new John 2:1-11
He multiplied a small amount of food on two separate occasions to feed thousands John 6
He sends forth the Holy Spirit John 15:26
He accepts worship Hebrews 1:6, Matthew 14:33
He is called ‘Lord’ Romans 10:9 where ‘Lord’ (kurios) is a translation of the Old Testament Yahweh (= God) Romans 10:13 cites Joel 2:32 which makes this clear
Jesus said: ‘My Father is greater (meizon) than I’ John 14:28. But this refers to the Father’s greater position in Heaven, not superior nature. Philippians 2:5–11 states that Jesus had equality by nature with God, but voluntarily took on the lower position of a servant. The same arguments apply to related passages about Jesus submitting to His Father’s will.
The word ‘better’ (kreitton) would have been used to describe superiority in nature if this is what had been meant. Indeed, kreitton is used to describe Jesus’ superiority in His very nature to the angels Hebrews 1:4 He is greater than us in position, but he is still a human being like us, so is not better in nature
Jesus is called ‘the firstborn of every creature’ Colossians 1:15 However, in Jewish imagery, ‘firstborn’ means ‘having the rights and special privileges belonging to the eldest child’. It refers to pre-eminence in rank more than to priority in time. This can be shown in passages where the term ‘firstborn’ is used of the pre-eminent son who was not the eldest, e.g. Psalm 89:27, where David is called ‘firstborn’ although he was actually the youngest son.
‘Firstborn’ does not mean ‘first created’; the Greek for the latter is protoktisis, while firstborn is prototokos. In fact, the verses after Colossians 1:15 show that Christ Himself is the creator of all things.
Jesus is Son of God. From this, some people try to show that Jesus is somehow less than God. But in Jewish imagery, ‘the son of’ often meant ‘of the order of’ or ‘having the very nature of’. For example, ‘sons of the prophets’ meant ‘of the order of prophets’ 1 Kings 20:35 ‘sons of the singers’ meant ‘of the order of singers’ Nehemiah 12:28 pharisees and sadducees understood that He was claiming to be God, which is why they wanted to kill him for blasphemy John 19:7
Jesus is the ‘only-begotten Son’ John 3:16 The Greek word translated ‘only-begotten’ is monogenes, which means ‘unique, ‘one of a kind’. Jesus is the unique Son of God, because he is God by His very nature. Believers in Him become ‘sons of God’ by adoption Galatians 3:26–4:7
This is shown in the human realm by Hebrews 11:17, where Isaac is called Abraham’s ‘only begotten son’. Abraham had other sons, but Isaac was the unique son of the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 5–18,20 born when his parents were old.
-"Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely. And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jer 23:5-6 *Righteous Branch - name for Jesus
We find Our Great God naming 'the righteous Branch', Jesus Christ, as 'JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' This names Him as God Almighty and Eternal, since the name/title 'JHVH, or YHWH' was only applied to the God of Israel, 'The Great I AM', by the Spiritually inspired Hebrew writers of Testament.
Compare the two verses Isa 61:1-3 and Luke 4:17-21.
"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on Me; because Jehovah has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to preach the acceptable year of Jehovah and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give to them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the mantle of praise for the spirit of heaviness; so that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that He might be glorified."
"For I Jehovah love judgment-"
We find that Isa 61:8, names the speaker of verses 1-3 as 'Jehovah'. He states that He has been anointed by Jehovah to preach the Gospel. Again, we find 'JHVH, or YHWH' being assigned by God's inspiration to two different beings. In the Gospel of Luke we find this entry concerning Jesus,
"And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, 'The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor,etc'- "
"And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears."
More Scriptural proof that Jesus is 'Jehovah' occurs in Isa 48:16-17 & Zec 2:10-11, "Come near to Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me. So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God -"
"Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion. For lo, I come, and I will dwell in your midst, says Jehovah. And many nations shall be joined to Jehovah in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. "
We again see the name 'Jehovah' being used to indicate two individual beings. We have 'Jehovah' speaking and being sent by 'the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit'. In other words, 'Jehovah your God' is sent by the 'Lord Jehovah and His Spirit'. The 'sent One' is identified in the Gospels,
Luke4:43 And He (Jesus) said to them, I must proclaim the gospel, the kingdom of God, to other cities, because I was sent on this mission,
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me.
In these, and numerous other, verses of the Bible, Jesus is proclaimed as the 'Sent One', which in agreement with Isa 48:16-17, and other Scriptures, names Him as 'Jehovah God.'
Additional Biblical testimony that Jesus is God, is provided by the Gospel of John.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.
From verse 14, we can determine that ' the Word' is Jesus. The final portion of verse 1 proclaims that the Word was God.
*Note; The argument that this part of the verse should read, 'the Word was a god', is refuted by the original Greek manuscripts, which read, 'God was the Word.' in addition, the title 'ho theos' is used for the name 'God'. Throughout ALL the Greek manuscripts, this title was used only to name the One, True, God.
John 14:8-9 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip?"
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?"
"I am currently asking God for more understanding in the Book of Revelations." Arent we all
"I do not study for head knowledge. I am a believer." Me too
"Is there anyone who has an interest in studying the man Christ Jesus?
My life is studying Jesus as the Author of my Salvation.
Thank you for your post. You gave me a challenge and I put the bible to the test once again reaffirming my belief in the word. Wow I spent 4 hours on this post! Time sure does fly by fast when your having fun.
Faithful Servant
You dont see him as God but you see him as God manifested in the flesh? How is it that you dont accept his being God if he is God in the flesh?
"I believe Jesus is all the titles"
MIGHTY GOD: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
WORD: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
I am interested in how Jesus was "disobedient" in a commandment.
adam ~da = man, mankind
If Jesus who is the first and last Adam ,which I agree is a name for Jesus in the bible, if Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. How can we reason that God sinned? Adam, the man, sinned and thus created the fallen nature of men.
Lets study this
Matthew 28:19 ‘baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.’ *Note that the word ‘name’ is singular, showing that all three Persons are one Being.
As the Creator Colossians 1:16-17 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
The NT states that the Jesus is the Creator of all things. For instance, the author of Hebrews writes:
Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12 But about the Son he says… ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.
The author has the Father addressing the Son as the actual Creator of the cosmos. The author applies to the Son an OT passage which refers to Yahweh’s work in creation:
Psalm 102:24-27 “‘O my God,’ I say, ‘take me not hence in the midst of my days, thou whose years endure throughout all generations!’ Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away; but thou art the same, and thy years have no end.”
the OT says somewhere else that Yahweh ALONE stretched out the heavens:
Job 9:7-8 He speaks to the sun and it does not shine; he seals off the light of the stars. He ALONE stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.”
For Hebrews to write that the Son personally laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the work of his hands means that the author truly believed that the Son was Yahweh God (yet not the Father), the very eternal Creator himself!
Yahweh God created the heavens with his own hands and he alone stretched them out. The Son created the heavens with his own hands.Therefore we can conclude that the Son is Yahweh God.
He changed the water into wine, creating something new John 2:1-11
He multiplied a small amount of food on two separate occasions to feed thousands John 6
He created new eyes from mud John 9; Mark 8
He had authority over nature and controls His creation for He calmed the sea and walked upon it and caused the fish to have the coin in its mouth so He and Peter could pay the temple tax Matthew 17:27
He gave life to the physically dead.
[font=Arial,Helvetica]He gave life to the spiritually dead, making a new creation.
[/font]He has the ability to forgive sins Luke 7:47–50 and judge all people John 5:27He sends forth the Holy Spirit John 15:26
He accepts worship Hebrews 1:6, Matthew 14:33
He is called ‘Lord’ Romans 10:9 where ‘Lord’ (kurios) is a translation of the Old Testament Yahweh (= God) Romans 10:13 cites Joel 2:32 which makes this clear
Jesus said: ‘My Father is greater (meizon) than I’ John 14:28. But this refers to the Father’s greater position in Heaven, not superior nature. Philippians 2:5–11 states that Jesus had equality by nature with God, but voluntarily took on the lower position of a servant. The same arguments apply to related passages about Jesus submitting to His Father’s will.
The word ‘better’ (kreitton) would have been used to describe superiority in nature if this is what had been meant. Indeed, kreitton is used to describe Jesus’ superiority in His very nature to the angels Hebrews 1:4 He is greater than us in position, but he is still a human being like us, so is not better in nature
Jesus is called ‘the firstborn of every creature’ Colossians 1:15 However, in Jewish imagery, ‘firstborn’ means ‘having the rights and special privileges belonging to the eldest child’. It refers to pre-eminence in rank more than to priority in time. This can be shown in passages where the term ‘firstborn’ is used of the pre-eminent son who was not the eldest, e.g. Psalm 89:27, where David is called ‘firstborn’ although he was actually the youngest son.
‘Firstborn’ does not mean ‘first created’; the Greek for the latter is protoktisis, while firstborn is prototokos. In fact, the verses after Colossians 1:15 show that Christ Himself is the creator of all things.
Jesus is Son of God. From this, some people try to show that Jesus is somehow less than God. But in Jewish imagery, ‘the son of’ often meant ‘of the order of’ or ‘having the very nature of’. For example, ‘sons of the prophets’ meant ‘of the order of prophets’ 1 Kings 20:35 ‘sons of the singers’ meant ‘of the order of singers’ Nehemiah 12:28 pharisees and sadducees understood that He was claiming to be God, which is why they wanted to kill him for blasphemy John 19:7
Jesus is the ‘only-begotten Son’ John 3:16 The Greek word translated ‘only-begotten’ is monogenes, which means ‘unique, ‘one of a kind’. Jesus is the unique Son of God, because he is God by His very nature. Believers in Him become ‘sons of God’ by adoption Galatians 3:26–4:7
This is shown in the human realm by Hebrews 11:17, where Isaac is called Abraham’s ‘only begotten son’. Abraham had other sons, but Isaac was the unique son of the Abrahamic Covenant Genesis 5–18,20 born when his parents were old.
-"Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and act wisely, and shall do judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely. And this is His name by which He shall be called, JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jer 23:5-6 *Righteous Branch - name for Jesus
We find Our Great God naming 'the righteous Branch', Jesus Christ, as 'JEHOVAH, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' This names Him as God Almighty and Eternal, since the name/title 'JHVH, or YHWH' was only applied to the God of Israel, 'The Great I AM', by the Spiritually inspired Hebrew writers of Testament.
Compare the two verses Isa 61:1-3 and Luke 4:17-21.
"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on Me; because Jehovah has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to preach the acceptable year of Jehovah and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give to them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the mantle of praise for the spirit of heaviness; so that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, that He might be glorified."
"For I Jehovah love judgment-"
We find that Isa 61:8, names the speaker of verses 1-3 as 'Jehovah'. He states that He has been anointed by Jehovah to preach the Gospel. Again, we find 'JHVH, or YHWH' being assigned by God's inspiration to two different beings. In the Gospel of Luke we find this entry concerning Jesus,
"And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, 'The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor,etc'- "
"And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears."
More Scriptural proof that Jesus is 'Jehovah' occurs in Isa 48:16-17 & Zec 2:10-11, "Come near to Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me. So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God -"
"Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion. For lo, I come, and I will dwell in your midst, says Jehovah. And many nations shall be joined to Jehovah in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. "
We again see the name 'Jehovah' being used to indicate two individual beings. We have 'Jehovah' speaking and being sent by 'the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit'. In other words, 'Jehovah your God' is sent by the 'Lord Jehovah and His Spirit'. The 'sent One' is identified in the Gospels,
Luke4:43 And He (Jesus) said to them, I must proclaim the gospel, the kingdom of God, to other cities, because I was sent on this mission,
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me.
In these, and numerous other, verses of the Bible, Jesus is proclaimed as the 'Sent One', which in agreement with Isa 48:16-17, and other Scriptures, names Him as 'Jehovah God.'
Additional Biblical testimony that Jesus is God, is provided by the Gospel of John.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.
From verse 14, we can determine that ' the Word' is Jesus. The final portion of verse 1 proclaims that the Word was God.
*Note; The argument that this part of the verse should read, 'the Word was a god', is refuted by the original Greek manuscripts, which read, 'God was the Word.' in addition, the title 'ho theos' is used for the name 'God'. Throughout ALL the Greek manuscripts, this title was used only to name the One, True, God.
John 14:8-9 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip?"
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father?"
"I am currently asking God for more understanding in the Book of Revelations." Arent we all
"I do not study for head knowledge. I am a believer." Me too
"Is there anyone who has an interest in studying the man Christ Jesus?
My life is studying Jesus as the Author of my Salvation.
Thank you for your post. You gave me a challenge and I put the bible to the test once again reaffirming my belief in the word. Wow I spent 4 hours on this post! Time sure does fly by fast when your having fun.
Faithful Servant
