Plenty To Know

[Gordian Knot]

Is there a purpose to living? Or is it possible that beyond the skills necessary to survive, anything else is irrelevant. Indeed pointless. Anything else people have created to give their life meaning is mere illusion. A panacea to placate our minds into believing there is indeed purpose.

Someone asked me why I believe there is plenty to know. Why I think there is much to learn, even if we are fated as a species to never answer the really BIG questions. How did the Universe come from nothing? Are there Gods? Is there life for us beyond our deaths in this plane of existence?

Why are we here? Here is the answer that works for me. The purpose of life is to live. Not to simply exist, but to Live. To experience all that this realm of existence has to offer, both the good and the bad; the ordinary and the extraordinary. And as a result of those experiences, grow as a person.

Living with purpose. Experiencing, learning, growing, these are the reasons we are here. These are the circumstances that make it worth having lived. Even if there is nothing beyond this existence. Even if there are no Gods, no afterlife. If one has truly lived during the oh so short time we have, that was a life worth living.

We have tools, natural tools which we call our senses. Why do we have them if we were never meant to use them. We have minds that wonder, minds that ponder. Why bother having such tools as thinking and imagining if our minds were meant to be sterile?

How we use, or abuse, these tools are up to each one of us. One can embrace love or hate, an open mind or one completely closed, morality or the lack thereof. And, yes, even the right to ignore the gifts we have; to believe they are illusory and purposeless.

Even if all we experience has no purpose, everything we learn is an illusion, it is still worth doing. Because this is the human condition. These are the only tools we have.

Also, it is my belief that the day we stop growing is the day we start dying. Dying inside to the point that we become hollow shells shambling along through our lives until we end.

To paraphrase an old saying “A Life is a Terrible Thing to Waste”.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Hear hear!

 

[Ahanu]

Is there a purpose to living?

Is this a response to Nothingtoknow's post in another thread? Just assuming from the title of the thread. While you provided your answer to the question of purpose, you didn't fully respond to Nothingtoknow's comment:

As I said, life for me has no 'grand' purpose and even if there is one, there is no way of knowing it.

​

Maybe this thread isn't a response. Maybe you're just sharing your view. Regardless of this, Nothingtoknow concedes purpose possibly exists, so I'm curious how you would respond to the following question:

Can we know the purpose of living?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

People insist on A purpose to life, is YOUR purpose to live any less meaningful?

 

[Gordian Knot]

Ahanu,
Yes it was NtK who asked those questions. I chose to respond in a new thread because I think it is an important enough topic to consider separately. I chose to make my response as a comment to everyone, otherwise I was concerned I would be seen as attacking NtK. Definitely not my intent.

As to your question, my response is that you are asking the wrong question. No one can know THE purpose of living because there is no all inclusive answer to that question, IMO. This is where I believe so many people go wrong.

The correct question is what does each individual consider the purpose of living. The answer is going to be different for each one of us. My comments are the answer to my purpose of living. And I believe I answered that. If you think I did not, or my answer is incomplete, please let me know as I would be interested in why you think that.

I'm also looking forward to NtK's comments on what I have said.

 

[Ahanu]

Let's rephrase the questions.

What is the meaning of life? Can we know it?

Saying it's the wrong question reminds me of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

In the first novel and radio series, a group of hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings demand to learn the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything from the supercomputer, Deep Thought, specially built for this purpose. It takes Deep Thought 7½ million years to compute and check the answer, which turns out to be 42. Deep Thought points out that the answer seems meaningless because the beings who instructed it never actually knew what the Question was.
​

So the writer says we need The Ultimate Question:

When asked to produce The Ultimate Question, Deep Thought says that it cannot; however, it can help to design an even more powerful computer that can. This new computer will incorporate living beings into the "computational matrix" and will run for ten million years. It is revealed as being the planet Earth, with its pan-dimensional creators assuming the form of mice to observe its running. The process is hindered after eight million years by the unexpected arrival on Earth of the Golgafrinchans and then is ruined completely, five minutes before completion, when the Earth is destroyed by the Vogons to make way for a new Hyperspace Bypass. In The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, this is revealed to have been a ruse: the Vogons had been hired to destroy the Earth by a consortium of psychiatrists, led by Gag Halfrunt, who feared for the loss of their careers when the meaning of life became known.
​

LOL! A lot of topics drawing me to science fiction on this forum.

 

[Gordian Knot]

SF is almost always a good resource to fall back on!

You asked "What is the meaning of life? Can we know it?"

My response would be similar to my initial post. I do not believe, and actually find it hard to believe, that there is an empirical all inclusive answer that would fit everyone.

So I fall back on my statements from above. What we can know of the meaning of life is a question each of us must have the courage to answer for ourselves.

And actually that makes sense to me. There are few absolutes in this reality we inhabit. It makes sense that the answer must be up to each individual because only each person can truly understand how they perceive reality through their own senses.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

It makes sense that the answer must be up to each individual because only each person can truly understand how they perceive reality through their own senses.

This one did it for me, very well put!

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Dear GK

Not to worry. I have no copyright on any of my thoughts! you are welcome to edit, rephrase.
I like this forum and the respect each one has for other's views.

'My' belief remains in Nothing to know and no purpose beyond basic survival (of which we have no choice).

Whether there is plenty to know and a grand purpose, is a wishful thinking of human nature.

I wish there was plenty to know and some grand purpose, but over years of thinking and exploring this (wasting a lot of time) I very much doubt it. This unfortunately is exploited by a lot of so called 'realised' beings and spiritual experts. Again i repeat they fool themselves and others. But i am not here to save those who fall a prey for this. Good luck to their intelligence.

Just to make things clear, GF said purpose of life is To Live- To experience, learn and grow as a person. I agree its your belief, but is it not the 'FEAR' of other way of thinking drives you towards this belief.

You then said about 'good and bad' 'worth living' 'love and hate' - again are these not just concepts emerging as a consequence of conditioning of the mind through our senses.

You said 'the day we stop growing we start dying' 'become hollow shells shambling till the end'- again does not scare me. Just because of fear of dying and a mundane life should not make one believe in "interesting" things and concepts.

Finally, lets say there is a purpose and something to know. One hopes that in future he will realise something grand, something spectacular. What will be his state of mind when he has achieved this? When he will be in such a state (everlasting bliss, happiness, love, enlightenment etc), I am sure, he will not be in the same state as he is now and will not be able to communicate in the same way as we do now!! For example, after death, one cannot explain what it feels dying!!-because the communication mechanism of brain is non-existent.

Apologies- if i have gone tangential.

I may agree with your 'subjective reality' concept. But the problem is lack of objectivity to imagination, belief etc may take us in a completely wrong track especially in the so called spiritual domain.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

The fear your talking about? I'm I feeling that without me knowing it? Am I so conditioned that I'm not aware of my true feelings?

 

[Gordian Knot]

Hey NtK, welcome back.

'My' belief remains in Nothing to know and no purpose beyond basic survival (of which we have no choice).
You mean my sterling prose did not have the effect of opening your eyes and seeing the error of your ways? I'm shocked! Shocked I say!

Okay, seriously your belief is your belief, just as mine is mine. Although I might disagree that we have no choice concerning survival. One almost always has the choice of whether to survive or not to.

Whether there is plenty to know and a grand purpose, is a wishful thinking of human nature.
Personally I would not wrap those two concepts together. There may or may not be plenty to know. There may or may not be a grand purpose. Very separate and different things. I tend to believe there is plenty to know. I have much less faith that there is any grand purpose.

I wish there was plenty to know and some grand purpose, but over years of thinking and exploring this (wasting a lot of time) I very much doubt it. This unfortunately is exploited by a lot of so called 'realised' beings and spiritual experts. Again i repeat they fool themselves and others. But i am not here to save those who fall a prey for this. Good luck to their intelligence.
Yes, I understand this is the answer for you. Where I believe you are going astray is in believing your understanding is the answer for everyone else as well.

Just to make things clear, GF said purpose of life is To Live- To experience, learn and grow as a person. I agree its your belief, but is it not the 'FEAR' of other way of thinking drives you towards this belief.
No it is not fear of the other possibility that drives me towards my beliefs. I can say that with certainty. My beliefs do not drive me away from something I fear, my beliefs drive me towards what I desire

You then said about 'good and bad' 'worth living' 'love and hate' - again are these not just concepts emerging as a consequence of conditioning of the mind through our senses.
Yes our mind is conditioned through our senses, and our senses are conditioned through our mind. It is why we have a mind and why we have senses. Whether the outcome is illusory or not is irrelevant because this is the only way we humans have to interact with the world around us (and within us!).

You said 'the day we stop growing we start dying' 'become hollow shells shambling till the end'- again does not scare me. Just because of fear of dying and a mundane life should not make one believe in "interesting" things and concepts.
You do use those words 'fear' and 'scared' a lot in your statements. Do you realize that? I'm not sure what relevance that has, if it has any at all. I'm simply pointing it out.

I have a confession to make, and it may surprise you. When I was a young man I believed as you do now. There was nothing to know, and no reason to even try. Only for me it was not a comforting experience. Quite the opposite. It was a sad, depressing, lonely state of being. I came to a point where I made a choice to behave differently. Not out of fear of where I was, but out of a certainty that it was not the right direction for my life. That the choice of which path to follow was one I could make for myself.

After all there may be nothing to know, and there may be plenty to know; and it might turn out that both choices are an illusion. If that is true, all we can do is choose the path the makes the most sense for ourselves.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

So you mean, your belief in plenty-to-know is based on your desire (for an interesting life-to live, experience, explore) rather than fear (of mundane life-sad,depressing) irrespective of what the end result is (which you agree there is no definite way of knowing) because the journey is important.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Precisely so. I acknowledge that there is no way to know. Given that there is no way to know, it is up to each one of us to decide how we will respond. I choose to act as if life is worth living. Whether it is or is not is beyond my ability to know. So I don't concern myself with that. I enjoy living, growing, learning, experiencing so that is what I do concern myself with.