What do you hope for when you die?

I was mainly referring to the NT, because that's where my God and my hero (Jesus) are. I hope this doesn't offend people of Jewish faith (I have great respect for Judaism for realizing the concept of monotheism), but I consider Genesis totally allegorical (though I must admit its insinuation of the big bang is quite amazing), so I don't take much of anything in there seriously.

Tad

Tad, this is not aimed at you - you just brought it up.

A conundrum I have never understood about people who believe in the bible. They tend to pick and choose which portions of the book that appeals to them and ignore the rest. Or the latest variation of that, which is to say those parts a person doesn't believe is allegorical.

If everyone can say what parts of the bible are 'real' and what parts are 'allegorical', then the word of God is arbitrary, subject to our individual belief structures. A lot of evil in this world has come, and continues to come, from people cherry picking which portions of the book they prefer to accept.
 
Tad, this is not aimed at you - you just brought it up.

A conundrum I have never understood about people who believe in the bible. They tend to pick and choose which portions of the book that appeals to them and ignore the rest. Or the latest variation of that, which is to say those parts a person doesn't believe is allegorical.

If everyone can say what parts of the bible are 'real' and what parts are 'allegorical', then the word of God is arbitrary, subject to our individual belief structures. A lot of evil in this world has come, and continues to come, from people cherry picking which portions of the book they prefer to accept.

I agree with you GN, but I'm not sure there is a way around it. There are so many mistranslation, additions, omissions, embellishments and such. Not to mention the various opinions about which is which. One almost has to 'Cherry Pick' to make any sense of it. Sometimes I think that's actually the way God wanted it. Sort of a way to force us to make up our own minds. Maybe a way to separate the true believers from those only paying lip service. I read both Christian and Hindu scripture and must admit, I do a little 'Cherry Picking" myself. To the extent that, if I find something similar in both, I tend to put more weight on that passage than other dis-similar passages. In any event, I don't think any passages should be completely ignored, but when it come to religious scripture, you definitely have to read between the lines.
 
Wouldn't a deity who wanted confusion and speculation about its thinking, and even its very existence be playing silly games with humanity?
 
Wouldn't a deity who wanted confusion and speculation about its thinking, and even its very existence be playing silly games with humanity?

I don't know. I was just speculating. It would depend on his motives I suppose. Could be just to keep us from learning too much too fast. That's just more speculation though.
 
Totally off topic, it seems a shame that this forum isn't more lively, unlike some of the others on which I post.
 
Just as the Biblical authors did, people create the deity in the image they desire, which is fine, as long as their deity doesn't cause them use their faith in an abusive way.

This doesn't sound very agnostic?
 
Totally off topic, it seems a shame that this forum isn't more lively, unlike some of the others on which I post.

Who are you telling this to? to NJ? (I think he was just answering your question...)

Sorry, if you were unhappy that the original topic isn't really addressed anymore..., deviation can often happen in any conversation on any forum (at least that's my experience).

I'll post one last one to reply to GK, but if GK (or anyone) wants to continue this course of conversation, perhaps we should start a new thread, so this thread can go back to its original theme.

Tad
 
GK, I understand what you're saying. I often ask the same question to inerrantists (those who claim God dictated and/or superintended the writing/assembling process of the Bible). It can sometimes cause an uncomfortable situation among my devout Christian friends, but I still dare ask them once in a while, like, "If you really believe that, you must not pick and choose. So tell me why you don't oppose divorcing and remarrying?" (I know some Catholics do, but most of my Protestant friends don't.) I haven't heard a satisfactory answer yet.

I consider religious scriptures to be of a great importance and should be studied vigorously because I believe many of them were written by the people who were inspired by God, but no humans can ever describe God's Will perfectly, I believe it's over our heads. So, if I followed 'the whole thing' without picking & choosing, I'd be following 'the human writer(s)' of the books, and not necessarily God.

Also, to better explain my stance, let me add, just because I deem some parts of the Bible to be allegorical, that doesn't automatically mean that I write them off (though I now realize how I wrote my earlier comment can sound that way). It’s like when we read Aesop’s fable, the North Wind and the Sun for example, we wouldn’t think of arguing over if the wind and the sun could actually talk and would try to compete against each other or not, but we can see that there's something valuable to learn in the story.

I encourage people to pick and choose as we do with anything. When we read any works of notable philosophers and thinkers in history, regardless how great they are, it's still less likely to find a book where every single statement it contains to be 100% agreeable, right?, so we pick and choose the parts that feel right to our hearts and shape our own views and beliefs. That's how we should read anything, imho. Blindly swallowing the content of any book by suppressing one's reasoning and by bypassing one's conscience can be very dangerous.

A lot of evil in this world has come, and continues to come, from people cherry picking which portions of the book they prefer to accept.
I don't quite understand this statement. Are you saying the people who cherry-pick portions of the Bible cause evil? Or you meant to say the people who cherry-pick 'the wrong portions'...??

If a believer only cherry-pick "love your neighbor as yourself" or "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends", I don't think any evil can come from such believers.

I think evil in this world has come, and continues to come, from both believers and nonbelievers who are overcome by their selfish desires to materialize their ideals and/or happiness 'at the cost of others'.

Tad
 
Who are you telling this to? to NJ? (I think he was just answering your question...)

Sorry, if you were unhappy that the original topic isn't really addressed anymore..., deviation can often happen in any conversation on any forum (at least that's my experience).

I'll post one last one to reply to GK, but if GK (or anyone) wants to continue this course of conversation, perhaps we should start a new thread, so this thread can go back to its original theme.

Tad

I was just wondering why this forum in general didn't seem to attract very much traffic, as it seems a good place to post.
 
NJ and Tad, thank you for your responses to my query. We have wondered OT, so will leave the subject for now. I will be pondering your answers though; perhaps we can start a new thread.

Quirky, this forum has always been on the quiet side as long as I have been here. No idea why. I rather like it this way though. It gives me time to think about the posts. I have been on heavy traffic sites, even moderated on one (on the Titanic!) and the time they require can be too much.
 
Surely you can devote as much or as little time to any forum as suits you?
 
Some folks like big raves, music festivals...some like sitting around with friends and an acoustic guitar...

Some times it is fun to go to a big sporting event...other times playing a pick up game, and others watching it on TV with friends...

While we all enjoy getting out and shaking it up sometimes....this is a place to come home to, to actually discuss, at a speed where all can keep up and listen...

Those that find it to slow move on. Those prophets who find they don't find folks they can convert move on.

We simply sit back on the couch and continue our conversations...
 
Some folks like big raves, music festivals...some like sitting around with friends and an acoustic guitar...

Some times it is fun to go to a big sporting event...other times playing a pick up game, and others watching it on TV with friends...

While we all enjoy getting out and shaking it up sometimes....this is a place to come home to, to actually discuss, at a speed where all can keep up and listen...

Those that find it to slow move on. Those prophets who find they don't find folks they can convert move on.

We simply sit back on the couch and continue our conversations...

I like to pop in and out of forums, during the day, have my say and then get back to reality. I rarely have my computer on after about 7.30pm and don't switch it on again until about 8/9am. I am not a night owl liking to be in bed between 9/10pm.
 
After finding myself once again pondering the OP of this thread, (What do you hope for when you die?), I decided to get a 10 year old's perspective and asked my Grand Nephew. According to him, when you die, your body goes in the ground, but your memory lives on in those who knew you. On closer inquiry, I learned that he had arrived at this conclusion by taking quite literally something the Priest had said at my Mom's funeral. My Nephew had envisioned the memory we possess while in a living state, being transferred into the body of another after death. In essence, our consciousness living on in someoneelses mind and being able to experience the world again through them. I started to correct him on a few points, but than I thought, what if he's right? Could this be how reincarnation really works?
 
After finding myself once again pondering the OP of this thread, (What do you hope for when you die?), I decided to get a 10 year old's perspective and asked my Grand Nephew. According to him, when you die, your body goes in the ground, but your memory lives on in those who knew you. On closer inquiry, I learned that he had arrived at this conclusion by taking quite literally something the Priest had said at my Mom's funeral. My Nephew had envisioned the memory we possess while in a living state, being transferred into the body of another after death. In essence, our consciousness living on in someoneelses mind and being able to experience the world again through them. I started to correct him on a few points, but than I thought, what if he's right? Could this be how reincarnation really works?

I have wondered if it is possible for memory to sometimes be stored in the DNA? That could account for the feeling of de ja vu you sometimes gets when visiting a place you have never been before.
 
I think, the moment we die i.e the heart stops beating and breathing ceases, the body is devoid of oxygen and glucose. So all the cellular functions (factories and machines) which depend on these chemicals, stop and disintegrate.

It just shows how we are a complex synchronised combination of chemicals. The brain gives us a feeling of self, identity through sensory perceptions, thoughts (various emotions), memory (knowledge).

So, when we die and all these chemicals disintegrate - there is no way to know what happens next. There is no Brain. So there is no perception and communication in the way we know it.

In a way DNA contains memory. DNA codes for all proteins and proteins make up enzymes and other energy producing factories in the cell, which maintain the brain circuits of thought and memory as well.

But the de ja vu you are taking about is more likely preconditioning, memory and knowledge 'playing up' just like 'dreams'.
 
Back
Top