Atheist or Agnostic; which do you prefer?

Namaste Jesus said:
My idea of God has nothing to do with my feelings toward Agnostics. I know very well not everyone sees God the same way. I said as much in the post. All I'm saying is, if you have some concept of the devine, no matter what that may be, physical, spiritual or what have you, than you are not Agnostic. This is just my personal opinion, I don't know what you are taking offence at.
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Well, I take offense because you insist that being an agnostic is not a valid point of view. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting your own ignorance about something that no one really knows for sure.

Do I have a concept of the divine? Yes, I have several. Some are entirely secular, although one could argue that they're gifts from God. Others would argue that they're traps from Satan.

For me, the question of whether there's a God is not only unanswerable, it's damn near irrelevant. The important things are to be kind, loving, generous, open-minded, joyful, and protective of this planet we all depend on. Religion can help point you to those goals (although it can also block you from them).
 
I respect your opinion LS,

I realize that everyone does not share my views and that's fine. We all approach issues from a different perspective. My experiences lead me to draw certain conclusions just as your experiences influence your conclusions. That doesn't mean that either of us is wrong, only that we have a different point of view. If I spent all my time taking offense at differing view points, I'd never get anything done.

Don't take what you read on this forum personal. It's only someone elses point of view based on their unique life experiences. ;)
 
Namaste Jesus said:
My idea of God has nothing to do with my feelings toward Agnostics. I know very well not everyone sees God the same way. I said as much in the post. All I'm saying is, if you have some concept of the devine, no matter what that may be, physical, spiritual or what have you, than you are not Agnostic. This is just my personal opinion, I don't know what you are taking offence at. You haven't even bothered to state what your personal opinion on the subject is, only to attack mine. If you were to insist I was religious because I didn't know better, it wouldn't really offend me, because I think it would show your ignorance more than mine. I'm sorry if you don't like or perhaps just don't understand my posts, but I see no need for the personal attack. I would have thought better of you.
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I hope my frustrations don't come across as offensive, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you here. I also wanted to point out that the kinds of statements that you were replying to often steer conversations that began with a genuine intentions of curiosity and human interaction, to petty squabbles in which everyone ends up defending their own viewpoints and thus becoming further identified with and attached to them, and learning almost nothing of value from each other!

Sigh! Again, sorry for being frustrated, and I hope this comment doesn't start something I was hoping to avoid :S Just wanted to express my opinion :)
 
thenewnewworldorder said:
I hope my frustrations don't come across as offensive, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you here. I also wanted to point out that the kinds of statements that you were replying to often steer conversations that began with a genuine intentions of curiosity and human interaction, to petty squabbles in which everyone ends up defending their own viewpoints and thus becoming further identified with and attached to them, and learning almost nothing of value from each other!

Sigh! Again, sorry for being frustrated, and I hope this comment doesn't start something I was hoping to avoid :S Just wanted to express my opinion :)
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WAR!

Also, welcome to the forum!
 
thenewnewworldorder said:
I hope my frustrations don't come across as offensive, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you here. I also wanted to point out that the kinds of statements that you were replying to often steer conversations that began with a genuine intentions of curiosity and human interaction, to petty squabbles in which everyone ends up defending their own viewpoints and thus becoming further identified with and attached to them, and learning almost nothing of value from each other!

Sigh! Again, sorry for being frustrated, and I hope this comment doesn't start something I was hoping to avoid :S Just wanted to express my opinion :)
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Very insiteful. Thanks so much for posting and welcome.
 
Re: Neither

Neither, I am not an Atheist. But I know that belief is not "easy" to develop. You have to be totally into a worldview but you cannot be lukewarm. You have your whole life to discover the Truth. But people can experience regret at any age young or old.
 
It is always exciting when I learn something about myself I hadn't quite grasped before, and what I have learned about me from this thread is that I am definitely in the Post-Modern Deist camp. (See Tad's Post #14).

As to the disposition of Agnostics, I do agree to a degree with NJ's original post. There are people who prefer agnosticism because they hate having to make a choice. Those folks often forget that not making a choice is, in fact making a choice. The choice not to choose.

That is not the only kind of agnostic though, and that is where NJ has perhaps misinterpreted the term. There are a host of reasons why being an agnostic is the right answer for many. Several such alternate reasons have been mentioned in this thread already.

In sum, NJ your thoughts on what makes an agnostic is not wrong. It is, however, not the only reason for choosing to be an agnostic. As is the case more often than not with religion, it makes sense to embrace the diversity rather than the single path.
 
Gordian Knot said:
In sum, NJ your thoughts on what makes an agnostic is not wrong. It is, however, not the only reason for choosing to be an agnostic. As is the case more often than not with religion, it makes sense to embrace the diversity rather than the single path.
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Point Taken. ;)
 
The reason that I self identify as an agnostic rather than an atheist has to do with intellectual honesty. I cannot take the position that there is no God because God is not a definable thing. I can't even begin to consider whether there is or isn't a God without a definition of what it is, so it's not possible for me to make a determination either way.

The other thing is, "atheist", for all intents and purposes, is a tribal identity marker. I'm not interested in joining the atheist tribe.
 
There is no atheist tribe. That is a fiction perpetuated by many religious folk to put all atheists under one identity so that they can be vilified as a group. In truth there are as many variants of atheism as there are of the religious and the agnostic.

See the following two articles for just the tip of the iceberg:
In Atheists We Distrust - Scientific American

Study: Atheists distrusted as much as rapists ? USATODAY.com

What is so ironic is that all this distrust about atheists is because they are perceived as the group most likely to make immoral decisions. As if the religious are less likely than any other group to make immoral decisions. In fact there is no actual connection between religion and morality.

Religion and morality are not synonymous. Morality does not depend upon religion although this is "an almost automatic assumption." [2] According to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Ethics, religion and morality "are to be defined differently and have no definitional connections with each other. Conceptually and in principle, morality and a religious value system are two distinct kinds of value systems or action guides.*

*Childress, (ed) James F.; Macquarrie, (ed) John (1986). The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Ethics. Philadelphia: The Westminster Press.

Atheists or no more and no less likely to be immoral than any other segment of society one wishes to compare.
 
I am, for all intents and purposes, an atheist.

That is a curiously vague comment. Sorta like saying 'I'm an atheist. Sorta.' Why the hesitation? Just curious.
 
I've bounced back and forth from Atheist too Agnostic. Then back again. The Agnostic in me says I cannot deny that which is unknown. However I could say the same thing about dragons, leprechaun or unicorns. But at the end of the day I know there are none, so taking the Agnostic point of view is sort of pointless.
 
Hi DW, welcome to the forum. Perhaps you can answer something I've always been curious about. Why would an Atheist join a faith based forum?
 
Hi NJ, thank you for the welcome, and I can understand your curiosity. Someone directed me to this site. I started to lurk a bit. When I saw some topics on Atheism and Agnostic's (and some claiming they are), I decided to join and comment.

There are some clarity I would like to get specifically on Christianity if I get around too asking those questions. Because I would like to know where others stand on things.

Maybe this is not the right board for this, but I would probably be more interested in philosophy over faith based discussions.
 
Ducks and Witches said:
The Agnostic in me says I cannot deny that which is unknown. However I could say the same thing about dragons, leprechaun or unicorns.
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Umm, we do, but technically, I don't think we should, it being contextual.

We can 'safely' rule out unicorns, because there would necessarily be material evidence of their existence. That's not to say they never existed, but rather that there is no evidence that they have.

Dragons falls under the same category, if we're talking about winged serpents, whether they breathe fire, or just have really, really bad breath.

The dragon as a mental form (egregore) or symbol (e.g. the blood systems) is something else altogether.

That leaves us leprechauns ... well, as a Gael, I'm not going to invite trouble by saying they don't exist! Only an 'eejit' would upset a leprechaun!

But, philosophically, I still think you can't say that a belief in leprechauns, and a belief in God, is the same ...
 
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