A Plea from a Literal Dictionaryologist

[Tadashi]

Bang on, in my book. The best place to start.

‘Bang on’...? oh, you mean, ‘Right on’?

In a face-to-face dialogue, I've been told, the spoken word accounts for about 10% of the dialogue going on ... so without that, much goes amiss. We Yanks and Brits are often accused of being 'two peoples divided by a common language'.

The same thing can happen even within the same country... One time I asked a guy from the Northern area (Hokkaido) to throw my magazine to me, "Can you toss (‘nagete’ in Japanese) that magazine?" In my area, ‘to me’ is implied, since we wouldn't use the word for throwing things away... But he tossed it into a trash can full of food waste... and the magazine I just bought was ruined...

Then one (American) Blue army declared "We have cleared the forrest at ...", which to the commander meant his forces had passed the forrest and were moving in the open country beyond. To the Brits, on the other side of the forrest, the word 'cleared' means troops have swept through the position and there is no longer any enemy presence there.

Not quite the same thing.

So the Brits came up to join their allies. The Reds staged a massive counter-attack from the forrest, and in the end, we lost the war ... millions of dollars spent on an exercise that foundered on a quite basic misunderstanding.

I can think of a worse example, which I’m sure many of you know... NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a key spacecraft operation!

Hey, Americans! Isn’t it high time that you guys use the same metric measurement as the rest of the world!? This is one of my biggest headaches when acting as an interpreter

Step outside the shop. The sign actually says 'Marital Aids' but my brain, which is prone to make its own assumptions, chose to see 'martial arts'.
(Sheesh! The stuff in that shop! Not so much 'enlightening' as 'eye-watering'.)

Oh, how I wanted to be a fly on the wall to see the expression on your face! lol...
BTW... do you have a ninja suit (and do you by any chance wear it on Halloween)?

Tad

 

[Tadashi]

The difference I would make with most of what has been said is this. Much of what we discuss is nuanced; phrases and concepts are subject to personal interpretations.

The individual words themselves, however, should not be subjective. One's understanding of a word should not be anything other than its definition. Nor do I believe definitions are merely guidelines which we can interpolate freely.

Not that we can't. We shouldn't. Especially when our discussions are often deeply philosophical in the first place. When what we are trying to impart is complicated. Then more than ever we need a basis from which to begin. That basis is that the words themselves are used as they are defined.

I'm fighting a loosing battle on this issue. I know that. But every once in a while there is a need to tilt at windmills. It is frustrating to see a good discussion get hung up just about every single time because we all start debating what we believe a word means. So just be aware that from time to time this topic will come back to haunt all of you.

And Tea, pillows. Definitely pillows! I'm told I have a very thick skull!

GK, I'm with you on much of what you said in your above post.
But I also understand what Allen says (welcome, btw). As long as a disclaimer is presented prior to using a word in one’s own way, I think that's perfectly fine. But without a disclaimer, everyone should stick with the definition according to dictionaries.

Tad

 

[wil]

words and word meanings change over time...

when it comes to the dictionary....what percentage of words have only one meaning....


dictionaries are like bibles....there are many interpretations/versions...

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Hi wil, you've been missed.

 

[Tadashi]

Yep, I've missed you too, wil!

 

[Zinga]

How much better we could communicate if we agree from the start that the dictionary definition is the definition we all agree upon - at least as a starting point.

Yes! I get what you're saying ...
I also vent about this problem ...
For myself, I prefer to know outright if a person can relate to what I'm saying - if not they can make my life easy by saying they don't get it ...
Misinterpretations of words as well as improper use digresses the conversation ...
Not only is it tiresome, it can be exasperating ...
The person who points it out to improve the conversation is re-directed to look at their own behavior as if to say its only "you" not others &/or provided w/instructions on how to avoid these type of feelings in the future ...
This type of vicious cycle creates a disconnection ...
Communication is a common problem that is fixable if one wants to progress ...
Not all people are of the same religious or spiritual beliefs or otherwise ...
We should be able to expect people are using proper definitions rather than their interpretation of its use & meaning from quotes, scriptures, etc ...
Synonyms can also be used rather than the exact terminology ...
The "point" of the conversation is what is to be arrived at satisfactorily or at least w/a common understanding ...
Communication establishes a connection to people; relating creates a bond of understanding ...
Good communication conveys our thoughts as well as instructions to have them understood w/greater ease ...
What I also find tiresome & exasperating is wasting a whole expending energy trying to figure out what a person was trying to say - its like trying to dicipher a secret code ... :wink:
Life is easier when we don't go out of our way to make it harder ...

 

[Gordian Knot]

Hi Zinga, and welcome. Your last statement sums it up nicely. Communication is hard enough without going thru the trouble of making it harder. We don't need no stinkin' Tower of Babble!

 

[Zinga]

Hi Zinga, and welcome. Your last statement sums it up nicely. Communication is hard enough without going thru the trouble of making it harder. We don't need no stinkin' Tower of Babble!

Ditto!
Thank you for the welcome!