A Serious Matter

Gordian Knot said:
Pseudo-intellectuals, NJ?

Mr. Dictionary defines the word thusly:
pseudo-intellectual. a person exhibiting intellectual pretensions that have no basis in sound scholarship. a person who pretends an interest in intellectual matters for reasons of status. of, pertaining to, or characterized by fraudulent intellectuality; unscholarly.

I would like to believe that most folks here rise above that level, even if we have our differences in opinion. Would you agree?
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Hey how bout that? We use the same dictionary! Sorry mate, call all 'em as I see 'em...
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
Wait! You think what I did was a personal attack and then you go with this?
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My post was intended as a good-natured jab and not directed at anyone in particular. Your post on the otherhand, made on another thread, was a direct reply to me and anything but good-natured.
 
NJ said "Hey how bout that? We use the same dictionary! Sorry mate, call all 'em as I see 'em..."

So are you saying that you do see those who disagree with you as pseudo-intellectual? Or is this just sarcasm? It is being difficult for me to grasp the intent of your comments.
 
Gordian Knot said:
NJ said "Hey how bout that? We use the same dictionary! Sorry mate, call all 'em as I see 'em..."

So are you saying that you do see those who disagree with you as pseudo-intellectual? Or is this just sarcasm? It is being difficult for me to grasp the intent of your comments.
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Nothing to do with comments made to me. Just a good natured jab based on observations I've made since joining the forum.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I have tried to get to grips with know and understand...Knowledge and Understanding
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Know is a verb. Knowledge is a noun. Understand is a verb. Understanding as you used it is a noun.

Perhaps, looking at the subject via differentiation between verbs and nouns will provide you with more clarity.

I'm a questioner, so I doubt could simply accept any such experience. I would try to figure out why I experienced it in as many perspectives as I could think of and never settle in in any of them. I don't...trust Bliss, it sounds too easy!
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So many times, trying to figure out the "why" proved impossible. The "how" was easier. But not always answerable. In the end, for so many experiences, I was left with just acceptance.

Aloha.. Allen:cool:

 
Hi Thomas,
Thomas said:
Me:
In the context of the material you quoted, I know my statements are true. I know from direct experience. I know that it is very simple. Prior to the simplicity revealed by my experiences I spent years of confused searching. I am no longer searching for happiness, bliss, I've got them already.

You:
OK. But do try and see that the teachings of the Great Traditions transcend the knowable and the experiential.

You argue that you are not in or of the finite realm, but the process of experiencing is itself a finite. If one's knowledge is limited to that which is directly experienced, then the horizon is a finite one, albeit blissful and carefree.
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Nothing transcends knowing. Again knowing, a verb. Knowable, a noun. Experience, a verb. Experiential, a noun. You can read my definitions. I have not deviated: To Know is to Experience.

No, I did not argue. I wrote, "I do not live in that realm." I live in the realm of both the "finite" and the "infinite", as we all do.

Me:
I am not searching for enlightenment, because I don't care. It happens fine. It doesn't happen, fine.

You:
OK. You're at peace with that ... but that, dare I say, does not necessarily mean one is 'Enlightened'.
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I have repeatedly stated I am not an Enlightened One.

Me:
I repeat I am here searching for other Bliss Masters, like myself.

You:
Why? 'Bliss' is an experience, but the Great Traditions do not, it seems to me, define Bliss as you appear to. You've argued your right to redefine terms according to your viewpoint, OK, a tad reductive, it seems to me, but that's your bag ... but that will inevitably result in confusion, and it does rather seem to me you've made certain assumptions regarding 'bliss' that I'm not sure the wisdom literature of the world would subscribe to.
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Most of the Great Traditions describe Bliss as an experience found in only inner solitude. And they teach techniques to achieve that state. In their limitations they are incorrect.

They deny the reality of the manifest while promoting the reality of the unmanifest. They say things like: "You are not your thoughts."

I say, "You are not just your thoughts".

Perhaps you can see the difference by looking at passive and active meditation.

For me the only reality is experience. When you are in the desert and you see an image. The image is real. You must go closer to determine if the image is a reflection of an oasis, or the actual oasis.

If the image is a reflection, a mirage, when you go closer it will disappear. It the image is the actual oasis, then objects will get larger, terminating at the oasis.

To experience requires change. Which occurs very clearly in everyday life. When we experience change occurring outside of our everyday life, then we may not observe the change. For example, the rotation of a galaxy, or the location of a hummingbird's wings.

I think you overate 'experience', and here is, for me, the nub of the issue.

Why do you have to experience something to believe in it? And how does one come to terms with the practice of asceticism, of self-denial, and above all, if the great mystics are to be believed, detachment?
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You don't have to experience something to believe in it. That's the point. You have to experience something to know it.
Simple example:
I give you a drug which puts you to sleep. I put you in a box into which no light arrives. I take you, and the box, to a location outdoors. Only you and I are present. We are at the edge of a forest, in the shade.

You wake up. And yell, "Where am I?"

I tell you, "You are in a box with me next to it. The box is in the shade at the edge of a forest and the time is noon."

You, "I know I'm in a box. I can feel (experience)it. But why should I believe you that it's noon and the box is in the shade at the edge of a forest."

I say, "You don't believe me. How foolish you are. I am a great sage. Master of all 7 paths to knowledge. Why would I lie?"

You, "I don't know. Why are you lying to me?"

I open the box. You experience the shade, you experience the edge of the forest. You experience the sun high in the sky.

You no longer act upon belief, faith. You act upon experiencing, knowing.

Bliss, achieved by detaching oneself from all mental and material cares, and ignoring the world ... I have my doubts.
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The first words which came from my last epiphany as a normal, everyday human were:
I don't care!
Because:
It doesn't matter.
Because:
Everything's OK.
Because:
All there is, is Love.

I had entered into the realm of Unconditional Love, which was no longer a choice.

Here's a serious matter.

Do I believe in an 'afterlife' as proposed by the Great Traditions? Do I believe in 'heaven' or 'nirvana'? Well, I hope so.

Is it necessary? No. If it proved not to be the case, would that alter your beliefs? No.

All this discussion of a 'reward' (and it seems to me to be viewed in somewhat materialist terms these days. I'm not sure our forebears ever saw it that way) might well be what the Buddhists refer to as an upaya, an expedient pedagogy.
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The experience is its own reward. No need to seek again. Wherever I am, I am in "heaven", as you called it.

The teacher seeks to get closer to a shared awareness by reminding the student, through, actions of the student's basic nature, which all share. The teacher acts as a catalyst triggering the student to remember, or to know, the student's reality.

I am seeking other Bliss Masters to share notes, so to speak. We each have unique experiences, but that which underlies those experiences is the same. And Bliss Mastery has a common language, of Love and Truth, and of Compassion and Passion. I feel it would be neat if more people lived in Bliss. Not Blissed Out. Not Frenetic Bliss. Just lil' ol', One foot in Heaven and One foot on the Ground, Common Sense Bliss.

A Bliss Master moves through and beyond the realms of Trust, Faith, Belief, Expectation, Hope, Judgment, and Attachment/Detachment.

Aloha.. Allen:cool:

 
Namaste Jesus said:
I'm afraid you'll just have to make your own mountain out of this mole hill. I'll not be assisting you.
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Ok?
Since you where so offended by what I wrote on that other thread I was fine with not commenting on your posts. But if you want to avoid "personal attacks" and "mountains" you should probably lay off the "good natured jab". Agreed?
 
One of the functions of morality is to set the bar for what evil is permissible. Evil is most often perpetrated in the fight against evil, or in the service of some ostensibly greater good.
 
AllenPapapetrou said:
Nothing transcends knowing.
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The knower does.

AllenPapapetrou said:
Most of the Great Traditions describe Bliss as an experience found in only inner solitude.
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Ah, 'the flight of the alone to the Alone', as Plotinus said.

This is where I think we are at crossed purposes. Christianity doesn't. In fact it has little to say about 'bliss' at all. It's not the point, for us. (I'm not sure it is for the Abrahamics generally.)

AllenPapapetrou said:
A Bliss Master moves through and beyond the realms of Trust, Faith, Belief, Expectation, Hope, Judgment, and Attachment/Detachment.
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I'm not sure who or what you mean by 'Bliss Master', it's a modern term and I do have my suspicions about the modernist tendency to repackage traditional concepts for a consumer market.
 
(To the OP)

Indeed, this is the fundamental 'Serious' matter with a capital S, isn't it... "Where does evil come from..."

I've been pondering over this quite some time now and I don't have a definite answer what causes evil... But I'm leaning toward thinking that evil manifests from our self-centeredness, our selfishness that wants to satisfy our ego and petty pride, that wants to have power over others, that wants to get 'my way', self-gratification, self-aggrandizement, self-importance, self-righteousness, and blaming others is a form of these manifestations, claiming it's always someone else's fault... to give an excuse to yourself... these are the mentalities naturally embedded in us as a self-defense mechanism, I suppose, because it helps our 'physical' survival (but many don't know it threatens our 'spiritual' survival) and very hard not to be ruled by it... because we have a strong animalistic instinct for survival just as any other creatures on earth... and I'm not an exception... I fight an uphill battle against selfishness every day.

If every single one of us were ever to achieve 'complete selflessness', if every single one of us ever thought others' well-being is more important than that of our own, I think we'll materialize the kingdom of heaven on this earth instantly...

Tad
 
davidelkins said:
If someone were to ask me, ‘Where does evil come from?’, I’d respond and say, ‘It would come from blaming others and Blaming Others is not ‘some other person.’ It would come if I blamed some other person.
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Actually, evil does not exist. It has to be engendered as a result of the ill use of our attribute of free will. According to Ecclesiastes 7:29 HaShem created man perfect and, at the age of reason he went after many moral distortions. Therefore, evil happens as a result of our own passions which once conceived they give birth to evil.
 
Shibolet said:
Actually, evil does not exist. It has to be engendered as a result of the ill use of our attribute of free will. According to Ecclesiastes 7:29 HaShem created man perfect and, at the age of reason he went after many moral distortions. Therefore, evil happens as a result of our own passions which once conceived they give birth to evil.
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Ok this started with evil does not exist and then went on to prove how it does?
 
wil said:
Ok this started with evil does not exist and then went on to prove how it does?
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I think I have made this quite clear. Evil per se does not exist. The Rambam is very clear about this in his book, "Guide for the Perplexed."
 
AllenPapapetrou said:
Hi David,

AMP (Among Other Perspectives), I hold the existence of "evil" is an incorrect delusion of Unenlightened Ones. For them "evil" is a belief which Enlightened Ones know is not True.

Aloha.. Allen
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very convenient :rolleyes:; just believe that and do what you like isn't it like abuse a child, rob a person, murder someone and believe that it not evil!
 
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