What happened to being HUMBLE?

[thenewnewworldorder]

I'm sick of everyone thinking they've got the right answer.

Everyone has their belief and since that's what they believe they think it is true. But isn't it the NATURE of belief to think something is true? So we have to keep in mind that bias...

Also, we have to keep in mind that other people have opposite beliefs that they believe as strongly as YOU believe! Are we really so ARROGANT to think that our beliefs are valid and theirs are not?

Spiritual matters cannot be PROVEN by physical means (which includes thoughts, as the brain is a physical organ). This is part of the nature of the spiritual world, wouldn't you agree? And I feel that it is also generally accepted among the spiritual that being HUMBLE is good.

So lets just have some conversations where nobody feels the need to defend or adhere to their viewpoint as if it were a matter of great importance. Maybe we could talk as if we assume we're probably WRONG! But we'd just feel like sharing our viewpoint and seeing what others think. Just be nonchalant. Cool, if you will.

If someone is a fool and is just talking smack, let them and listen closely... because even a fool speaks wisdom sometimes, just as a wise man will sometimes say something very foolish...

 

[thenewnewworldorder]

Of course, I could be wrong haha

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

But this is of great importance to a lot of people. What people believe can be as obviously true to them as I'm sitting on a chair (I don't KNOW I'm sitting on a chair, but I'm pretty sure...well lets assume I am for now). Being humble isn't, for me, something that comes naturally, it's something we strive to be. This means we aren't always humble.

This isn't always a very nice place, because it's a collection of real people who are all very different from each other. When we all step in here we know it can go either way, just like life. I might even go so far as to suggest that the honesty brings out things that wouldn't be explored in a more polite atmosphere. With time, I know what people I can have a conversation with and who I better avoid.

 

[Thomas]

I'm sick of everyone thinking they've got the right answer.

Isn't everyone?

Are we really so ARROGANT to think that our beliefs are valid and theirs are not?

Well, as one of the most belligerent posters here (it seems), that's NEVER been the case.
I argue most vehemently when:
I meet the arrogance in others who assume what another's belief consists of, and criticise it from nothing other than their own assumptions.

I meet the arrogance in others who assume their viewpoint is self-evidently right simply because that's what they believe, usually in the face of a large body of speculative and experiential wisdom, and invariably demonstrate a near non-existence of any in-depth understanding of what they criticise — the Dawkins debate being an exemplar of such, or the opinion that nothing good ever emerged from the Tradition in question.

Spiritual matters cannot be PROVEN by physical means (which includes thoughts, as the brain is a physical organ). This is part of the nature of the spiritual world, wouldn't you agree? And I feel that it is also generally accepted among the spiritual that being HUMBLE is good.

Absolutely. I would go further to say the nonsense that spiritual matters are explainable through empirical means – such views as science disproves or proves, the existence of God.

So lets just have some conversations where nobody feels the need to defend or adhere to their viewpoint as if it were a matter of great importance.

Well perhaps it is? I think its necessary when wisdom is criticised from a ignorance. I would argue that genital mutilation (indeed, any form of mutilation) is wrong when asserted on the grounds of 'spiritual' insight.

But we'd just feel like sharing our viewpoint and seeing what others think. Just be nonchalant. Cool, if you will.

I gave up on that long, long ago, on this board. I'm still pleasantly surprised, though ...

If someone is a fool and is just talking smack, let them and listen closely... because even a fool speaks wisdom sometimes, just as a wise man will sometimes say something very foolish...

The art is in discerning the difference.

If anyone's got any interests in my viewpoint, I'm delighted. It does happen here, on occasion.

Humility is one of the key virtues of the spiritual life — or so EVERY tradition would seem to say. But it's distinctly out of favour in the modern western mind. Self is all-important.

 

[thenewnewworldorder]

You both make fair and realistic points.

Humility is one of the key virtues of the spiritual life — or so EVERY tradition would seem to say. But it's distinctly out of favour in the modern western mind. Self is all-important.

Isn't that interesting? How temporal wisdom is often OPPOSITE of spiritual wisdom? They are like the YIN and YANG of "wisdom." Neither are wrong, and both are true, and yet they oppose each other. I think a lot of people who are very clever wit temporal knowledge/wisdom, believe that this intelligence is transferable to matters of spiritual importance. I've definitely been guilty of this, but usually I lean towards trusting my feelings/intuition over logic...

On the topic of spiritual vs. temporal wisdom, I wrote a blog post a couple days ago that I would love to hear some opinions on and chat about...



Temporal vs Spiritual Wisdom

Here is something to consider. We each live within 2 realities, a physical one and a spiritual. The physical pertains to all that we can perceive through the physical senses (sight, hearing, touch/nerves, smell, and taste). The spiritual world is that which we cannot perceive through these senses, and is related to intuition, witchcraft, astral projection, etc.

Spiritual wisdom cannot be achieved by physical means, just as physical wisdom cannot be achieved by spiritual means. They are opposing logics (if you can call spiritual wisdom a type of logic) and are as yin and yang to each other.

For instance, it makes no sense to forgive someone who has murdered your child if he makes no show of repentance. Temporal (physical) logic tells us that a murderer deserves to be despised, and this is TRUE. Yet, spiritual wisdom advises to forgive unconditionally, for it is the righteous way. This directly opposes temporal wisdom, yet it is equally (if not more) TRUE.

This is the paradox of temporal vs. spiritual wisdom.

If you are searching for spiritual wisdom, a good place to start is to STOP THINKING with your brain. The brain is a physical organ and so is sympathetic to physical/temporal wisdom. Therefor it is impossible for the BRAIN to understand spiritual truths. They must be felt a deeper, more subtle, level.

Think from your spirit or heart (not the organ heart, but the spiritual heart) and you shall see what I mean. It won’t TELL you anything (as the brain does) but you will FEEL its inclination and intention.

 

[Zinga]

I'm sick of everyone thinking they've got the right answer.

Everyone has their belief and since that's what they believe they think it is true. But isn't it the NATURE of belief to think something is true? So we have to keep in mind that bias...

Also, we have to keep in mind that other people have opposite beliefs that they believe as strongly as YOU believe! Are we really so ARROGANT to think that our beliefs are valid and theirs are not?

Spiritual matters cannot be PROVEN by physical means (which includes thoughts, as the brain is a physical organ). This is part of the nature of the spiritual world, wouldn't you agree? And I feel that it is also generally accepted among the spiritual that being HUMBLE is good.

So lets just have some conversations where nobody feels the need to defend or adhere to their viewpoint as if it were a matter of great importance. Maybe we could talk as if we assume we're probably WRONG! But we'd just feel like sharing our viewpoint and seeing what others think. Just be nonchalant. Cool, if you will.

If someone is a fool and is just talking smack, let them and listen closely... because even a fool speaks wisdom sometimes, just as a wise man will sometimes say something very foolish...

In general, I agree w/all you're saying, however, sometimes valid points truly need to be stressed for a number of reasons ...
The one that concerns me the most is a person whose age I question ...
Unfortunately, on this forum the age of a member is not displayed in their bio whereas w/others I was made to feel comfortable w/my replies knowing I was interacting w/an adult not a minor ...
I've seen alot of well meaning people provide good advice as well as encourage sex in a twin flame relationship that was not age appropriate ...
They only found out later when the OP (13-18yrs old) responded w/questions on how to calm their parent after relaying the advice provided by strangers on a forum ...
Its unsettling enough that many kids believe spirituality is about having supernatural powers & believing they do ...
Some try to conjure up spells, delve in unsafe areas, stay in abusive (TF/SC) relationships, etc all the while being combative w/parents in their defense of their beliefs ...
I'd prefer the age of member displayed to be on the safe side ...

 

[Quirkybird]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't think humble is particularly good, neither is arrogant, somewhere between those two extremes is best, in my not so humble opinion!

 

[Zinga]

I didn't have time to mention in my earlier reply that I do believe humility is a valuable trait ...
I've come across people who refuse to apologize for being flippant, rude, condescending or offensive all the way around ...
Sadly, they're talking heads who simply don't care about others ...

As for heated debates, I've gathered very good information from them ...
There are many reasons they become heated such as pushiness, over generalizations, different definitions for the same word or concept, total misunderstanding of a concept ...
For example, I recently read about a woman who was "forced" to convert to her future husband's faith to marry in the church. Eventually, the now husband left his church to convert to her faith. This was said to be "karma" as in "what goes around comes around". Obviously, it is not karma its just blaming the first church for its rules & refusing to be responsible for one's own decisions ...

Second example, I read about a woman in a twin flame relationship albeit abusive who decided to just accept it as it ...
A twin flame is supposedly the other half of one's soul. Their purpose together is to do spiritual & energy work together. When they die they leave this physical plane as one ...

#1 - I would explain how "karma" works ...
#2 - Many concerned people tried to to explain the 2 separate concepts she was using as well as suggested she kick him to the curb. She refused to listen. Its a sad thing when people interpret all information literally & when pointing it out to save someone from harm seems to make it worse ...