V
voiceofwood
Guest
When I say abundance, I mean an out-flowing from the self, a movement outward
When I say abundance, I mean an out-flowing from the self, a movement outward
Marcialou
We are stardust
Is your definition different from mine? Yours is too abstract for me to grasp.
I think of abundance as stemming from feeling loved by others and especially yourself. A person's experience of love will fill them up emotionally and they will have enough love to give to others without their own needs getting in the way. Is that a love that is flowing out from the self and moving outward?
V
voiceofwood
Guest
Perhaps it is the same or similar; love is not an emotion, though emotion is involved; that which loves, loves even when empty and in that loving, that movement outward finds itself full and overflowing. Such overflowing is that which maintains what over-wise may vanish or be eroded
Marcialou
We are stardust
Thomas,
Here is the response to #28 that I tried to post yesterday, unsuccessfully.
Black=Thomas
Blue=me again
Does “lust” include passion for one’s spouse or is that another aspect of eros?
Lust is the desire to possess, to want something for one's own sake. It doesn't take its object into consideration, and cares little for it. It simply wants it, for its own gratification. Once satiated, this desire often vanishes ... so it never was love, in any dimension.
Q: Is passion for one’s spouse part of eros, as distinct from lust?
He’ll send us to hell if we don’t believe in Him and repent
No, God doesn't send anyone to hell, it is we who estrange ourselves from His love by refusing His outreach… anyone who seeks the good, seeks Him. So any person who acts towards the good is, by definition, a Christian, whether they've heard or Christ or not.
Q?: Jews and Muslims have heard of Jesus but they don’t believe in him as the Christ. They would not like to be defined as Christian but they seek good. Can they go to Heaven?
As He Himself said, loving those who love us is easy. Where's the virtue in that? (cf Matthew 5:46, Luke 6:22).
IMO: It’s not always easy to love those who love us. Managing a loving relationship requires work on a daily basis. If love comes from a fullness of heart (emotional abundance) then it is a more mature and fulfilling love than one coming from neediness and not something to be dismissed. Granted, loving someone who hates you is harder to do, but I’ll give a great deal of credit for someone who can just manage not to hate back.
Is there any room for joy?
Yes. Beyond measure.
Q?: What things make a good Christian joyful? For me it’s spending a good day at the beach with a friend, playing with my grandchildren, dancing (sometimes ecstatically) and celebrating holidays with family and friends.
Today people are conditioned to be consumers, we want something before we make the effort, else why bother?
IMO: I agree, consumerism can leave us pretty spiritually empty. It wastes resources and keeps us from engaging in more fulfilling activities. However, that’s not to say we should deny ourselves of any stuff or feel guilty about it. Everything in moderation. I guess you agree with from answer to last question.
If you're doing it for the reward, then your heart's not really in the right place.
IMO: We do have legitimate physical and emotional needs, so sometimes I think it’s ok to do things for the reward. Like we need food, clothing and shelter, so working at a job we don’t like for the reward is necessary at times and nothing to be ashamed of. If you are able to work at what you love, you’re very lucky, and that kind of work will leave you with a feeling of abundance.
Does God really think we can achieve this if we try had enough?
What's hard about it?
Just think what could happen if every one of us said, "Today I'm going to do something to make someone's life just one degree better than it was."
IMO: What’s hard about it? It’s the every one part. You only have control of yourself but everybody has to do it. And everyone has to it all the time. (You didn’t say that in so many words, but I thought that was implied when talking about perfection and heaven on earth.) I don’t see that happening ever. Homo Sapiens will become extinct first.
Don’t Armageddon and the Rapture suggest that He doesn’t?
Sadly this infatuation with Armageddon and Rapture is another fabrication of American fundamentalism, like Creationism and Intelligent Design. I’m glad to hear that.
Q?: OK, so now I understand that you are not a fundamentalist. I apologize if I should have known that from previous posts. So how do interpret something like the Garden of Eden if not literally? Do you see it as a moral lesson but it never actually happened?
Can someone who is comfortably off, loves his family, gives generously to charities, and has a personal relationship with the Christian God ever achieve agape without leaving his family and possessions to become an ascetic?
Yes. Asceticism is a state of mind, it's not the measure of material value or comforts.
Q: So although Jesus seems to have led a pretty ascetic life in the sense of few possessions and comforts, a life of service, and the willingness to die for a good cause, it sounds like that’s not required of the rest of us?
Here is the response to #28 that I tried to post yesterday, unsuccessfully.
--------------
Red=meBlack=Thomas
Blue=me again
Does “lust” include passion for one’s spouse or is that another aspect of eros?
Lust is the desire to possess, to want something for one's own sake. It doesn't take its object into consideration, and cares little for it. It simply wants it, for its own gratification. Once satiated, this desire often vanishes ... so it never was love, in any dimension.
Q: Is passion for one’s spouse part of eros, as distinct from lust?
He’ll send us to hell if we don’t believe in Him and repent
No, God doesn't send anyone to hell, it is we who estrange ourselves from His love by refusing His outreach… anyone who seeks the good, seeks Him. So any person who acts towards the good is, by definition, a Christian, whether they've heard or Christ or not.
Q?: Jews and Muslims have heard of Jesus but they don’t believe in him as the Christ. They would not like to be defined as Christian but they seek good. Can they go to Heaven?
As He Himself said, loving those who love us is easy. Where's the virtue in that? (cf Matthew 5:46, Luke 6:22).
IMO: It’s not always easy to love those who love us. Managing a loving relationship requires work on a daily basis. If love comes from a fullness of heart (emotional abundance) then it is a more mature and fulfilling love than one coming from neediness and not something to be dismissed. Granted, loving someone who hates you is harder to do, but I’ll give a great deal of credit for someone who can just manage not to hate back.
Is there any room for joy?
Yes. Beyond measure.
Q?: What things make a good Christian joyful? For me it’s spending a good day at the beach with a friend, playing with my grandchildren, dancing (sometimes ecstatically) and celebrating holidays with family and friends.
Today people are conditioned to be consumers, we want something before we make the effort, else why bother?
IMO: I agree, consumerism can leave us pretty spiritually empty. It wastes resources and keeps us from engaging in more fulfilling activities. However, that’s not to say we should deny ourselves of any stuff or feel guilty about it. Everything in moderation. I guess you agree with from answer to last question.
If you're doing it for the reward, then your heart's not really in the right place.
IMO: We do have legitimate physical and emotional needs, so sometimes I think it’s ok to do things for the reward. Like we need food, clothing and shelter, so working at a job we don’t like for the reward is necessary at times and nothing to be ashamed of. If you are able to work at what you love, you’re very lucky, and that kind of work will leave you with a feeling of abundance.
Does God really think we can achieve this if we try had enough?
What's hard about it?
Just think what could happen if every one of us said, "Today I'm going to do something to make someone's life just one degree better than it was."
IMO: What’s hard about it? It’s the every one part. You only have control of yourself but everybody has to do it. And everyone has to it all the time. (You didn’t say that in so many words, but I thought that was implied when talking about perfection and heaven on earth.) I don’t see that happening ever. Homo Sapiens will become extinct first.
Don’t Armageddon and the Rapture suggest that He doesn’t?
Sadly this infatuation with Armageddon and Rapture is another fabrication of American fundamentalism, like Creationism and Intelligent Design. I’m glad to hear that.
Q?: OK, so now I understand that you are not a fundamentalist. I apologize if I should have known that from previous posts. So how do interpret something like the Garden of Eden if not literally? Do you see it as a moral lesson but it never actually happened?
Can someone who is comfortably off, loves his family, gives generously to charities, and has a personal relationship with the Christian God ever achieve agape without leaving his family and possessions to become an ascetic?
Yes. Asceticism is a state of mind, it's not the measure of material value or comforts.
Q: So although Jesus seems to have led a pretty ascetic life in the sense of few possessions and comforts, a life of service, and the willingness to die for a good cause, it sounds like that’s not required of the rest of us?