Researching How People Come To Faith

Irene

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Hello. I'm currently researching how a non-religious person, who grew up not practicing a religion, come to a religious faith of any kind, after they had become adults, and what the primary cause of the paradigm shift in their world-view was. I am wondering if anyone here had such a conversion, and is willing to share his or her experience with me, if it's not too personal ...
 
Ok Irene, by your request. I will submit my entire story on how I, a completely unbelieving Agnostic, with an axe to grind against Christians, became a Christian myself! It was a shock to everyone around me, but mostly to me.

If I submitted the whole thing at one time, you'd never make it through it. So how about this. I will introduce it in easily digested, bite-size pieces. If you want more, you can ask. If you stop asking, I will assume you've had enough and I will stop.

I have never told anyone the entire story. Ever. And it happened so long ago, I'm bound to have forgotten a couple of things. The only way to do this right, is to set up who I was before the conversion. That's what I'll try to do in the first message.
 
My Mother died of an aneurism of the brain, when I was 3. My brother Michael, died about 6 months later, in what was diagnosed (out of ignorance) then as "pneumonia of the blood." I think maybe it would be called Sepsis now, but for whatever reason, though he was a healthy highschool basketball player age 16, his blood quit carrying oxygen. It killed him in less than 24 hours. I don't remember my brother or my mother. I later found out that before my mother died, my father was already having an affair with his secretary. After mom died, Dad married his mistress and she became my stepmother. My father was an Agnostic. He believed in the existence of spiritual beings, but did not subscribe to Christ and the biblical God as the Son and the Father of the bible. Dad was very interested in the occult. He studied ceaselessly and became quite the established astrologer. He didn't pursue it professionally but could have . He also dabbled in palm reading and other occult practices such as conjuring up spirits through seyance and Ouija Board use. My half brother from a different mother is 13 years older than me and still alive. As a child I looked up to him and always sought knowledge from him. He was glad to answer any questions about the occult or spiritual subjects, which I was interested in. I had a ton of respect for him. My brother was the same then as he is now. He is a practitioner of Paganism, Witchcraft, Majick, and Wicca. Nowadays he holds the position of "High Priest" in the Wiccan/Pagan community. My stepmother may or may not have been a believer, but, as a family we never went to church. She never talked about God or anything spiritual. So my major spiritual and philosophical influences when I was a child--at least until about age 20--were the occult, astrology, and Wicca/Paganism. However, I never completely resigned to any ideology and remained Agnostic throughout my life. I was more interested in scientific explanations, though I did see some evidence for the unknown. Probably because of the male influences in my childhood, I grew up with a particular disdain for Christians. My take on them was pretty typical of what you might call "militant Atheists" today. If I was ever around a Christian, I would scoff at them and ask silly questions in an attempt to befuddle them and prove them unintelligent or ignorant. One thing that is important is, I believed all Christians were complete frauds. Perhaps some didn't know it consciously (in which case I would try to reveal it to them), but the rest knew, consciously, that their Christian belief system was a sham and pathetically absurd and illogical. I was no respecter of Christians, to say the least.

Around the year 2001, I was researching extra terrestrials a lot, and I had read a couple of books by Zacharia Sitchin. I firmly believed that the gods and angels spoken about were ET's from the planet Anu. Sumerian Texts, as interpreted by Sitchin, told an incredible story of how we were the product of ET DNA combined with existing primates.. and we were enslaved by these ET's, called "the Annunaki." Enough of that. I also discovered internet discussion forums around that time. Wow. It was an incredible discovery! There in the forums, I was free to discuss philosophy, ET's, the Annunaki, spiritual matters, etc. which I loved to do. And, much to my delight, there were plenty of Christians around that I could toy with. I joined an internet forum and for a year or so, I participated on almost a daily basis--having a blast; socializing, joking, talking about my favorite subjects, having fun, and bashing Christians. These were good times, indeed.
 
It would appear now you have got religion you are enjoying bashing non Christians in the way you enjoyed bashing Christians!:D
 
It would appear now you have got religion you are enjoying bashing non Christians in the way you enjoyed bashing Christians!:D
I don't think Frost ever bashed anyone for simply being non-Christian. He offered his opinions and defended his beliefs, I don't think that counts as "bashing".
 
Frost! You just gave me a great teaser ...!! C'mon, for the love of God, don't stop there! OK, you were Saul of Tarsus, sort of ... You despised Christians just like he did. And one day ... everything changed ... what happened? did Christ appear in the light?! What has caused you to change your mind about Christianity ...??

I was shocked to hear you endured such tragedies at such a young age ... you don't remember your mother or your brother ... I cannot even begin to imagine what that's like ... and the impact it had on your life ... It must have shattered your heart ... I am very sorry ... I sincerely hope your heart has found a way to heal ... I offer my prayers.

You know the singer from The Goo Goo Dolls, John Rzeznik [I posted their YouTube video yesterday], he lost both his parents within the span of a half year (his father, diabetic coma, his mother, a heart attack) when he was 15 ... and he was raised by his four elder sisters after that. He was raised as Catholic and is still practicing today.

He said, "I still flinch every time I see a nun. They would whoop your a** and then they'd call your parents and tell them why they'd whoop your a** and you'd go home and your parents would whoop your a**!! "You read these things about kids bringing guns to school and I would never be caught dead with a gun at Corpus Christi grammar school because I would be afraid that the nun would take it away from me and pistol whip me."

He's probably half joking, but I didn't know nuns can be so harsh! Oh well, my parents were very strict too ... I got spanked pretty good as a kid. ... I don't know why I'm talking about this, but I just thought I'd share it ...

Also I just realized there's a private message system ... Frost, if you'd like to share your story privately, please do so. If you'd like to continue sharing it with everyone, that's of course great as well. ;)
 
I don't think Frost ever bashed anyone for simply being non-Christian. He offered his opinions and defended his beliefs, I don't think that counts as "bashing".

It does if he gives the impression those who see it his way has the 'truth' and everyone else is in error, which is how he comes over, imo!
 
It does if he gives the impression those who see it his way has the 'truth' and everyone else is in error, which is how he comes over, imo!
I'm sorry you see it that way.

I'm sincerely sorry that bad experiences with some bigoted Christians have caused some people to view Christianity in such a negative light ... I'll bow out before I irritate you or anyone else more with my Christian messages ...

But I'll keep my private message system open, so if anyone ever wants to share his or her conversion experience with me, please feel free to drop me a line.

I thank everyone with whom I had an opportunity to converse and/or to read his or her posts ... you all have enriched my perspective.

Blessing to you all,
Irene
 
Oh don't do that, we all have to share this place, even if we annoy each other!
Q annoy me, but she has as much right to be here as anyone. And you can't exist without anyone someone! You this place to reach out to the sort of people you want to connect with. Like Frost.
 
Oh don't do that, we all have to share this place, even if we annoy each other!
Q annoy me, but she has as much right to be here as anyone. And you can't exist without anyone someone! You this place to reach out to the sort of people you want to connect with. Like Frost.
Thank you, A Cup Of Tea, I do appreciate your reply ...

I do understand what you say. Of course she has every right to express her opinions. But I also have a right to choose a forum to my liking.

My chief purpose of joining the forum was to research how people come to faith, and not about arguing whose religious views are right or wrong. I think my purpose will be better served if I talk to people who are willing to share his or her story with me, privately.

I don't want anyone to be mocking their sincere testimonies. It is a vulnerable enough moment for anyone to express their deepest thoughts and feelings from their heart. If people want to debate an idea or a philosophy behind religious beliefs, that's a different matter. I enjoy reading those posts greatly! But no one should be throwing a disparaging remark at someone's "personal" beliefs and faith to put them down, in my humble opinion.

Some people like to openly and strongly defend their religion and I think that is wonderful. Indeed, Frost and Thomas have a great talent for it, so I'll just leave that to them.

But, thank you again, A Cup Of Tea, for caring enough to intervene. You have a good heart. :)

Bless you,
Irene
 
As long as you feel you feel welcome here. It's not like we can force you to stay...stupid laws...
 
I was raised Christian. We moved a lot, my mom found a church based on the friends she found, tried a few and picked one she liked. We were Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist...whatever.. I left the church but hung in youth groups as a teen for the girls. As a young adult I tried various churches...nothing resonated. I had rejected the Christian faith its hypocrisy (as I saw it) and the ole white guy in the sky that I was taught about.

I was attracted to books on eastern religions and philosophies and was a proud agnostic living my life...

Mid 30's kids came around...early 40's my wife insisted my kids get a religious education of some sort. I was working in a healing center and many folks asked me if I was Unity...I had no clue what Unity was but they said I spoke as if I were. So I attended...and loved it. Found there were a lot of Christians that didn't believe in their sunday school upbringing and we were from Catholics, Baptists....all denominations... the church honored other faiths and beliefs, and believed Christ to be a consciousness level to strive for...that of peace and compassion....

It resonated.
 
It does if he gives the impression those who see it his way has the 'truth' and everyone else is in error, which is how he comes over, imo!
I've treated you very delicately. If my belief in the bible has you upset, then maybe you are better off thinking of me as gullible and foolish. We're all here for a reason. Just keep listening and participating. It will all work itself out.
 
I joined an internet forum and for a year or so, I participated on almost a daily basis--having a blast; socializing, joking, talking about my favorite subjects, having fun, and bashing Christians. These were good times, indeed.
There were 2 Christians on the forum I had regular discussions with. 1 was named Protosis, and the other was Beetlegunz. Protosis was a loud, outspoken, arrogant, hostile Christian who shouted everyone down. Anyone who dared to cross his path and question him was given a round of insults, Scripture, and kicked out of the way. Most of the forum was regularly dishing it back at him and it was kind of a frenzy. I handled him differently. I wasn't threatened by him at all, but rather, intrigued. I asked him crazy questions and gave him crazy answers to his questions. I was playing with him, but truly in fun. The other guy beetlegunz was a nice, calm Christian who was there to evangelize. He didn't present any harm and never argued, so I would participate in some discussion with him, tell him his beliefs were rather silly, but I otherwise considered him an ok guy.

Somewhere around or before this time, I watched a couple of movies that really resonated with me. I love sci-fi. And I always wondered, above everything else, how all this came about and why. The 2 movies that I really cared for were, The Thirteenth Floor and The Matrix. Both movies depicted our world as a digital hologram... a virtual reality. I thought it made sense. I thought it made a lot of sense.

Anyway, so, we all knew each other well at the forum and most of us had been there for years. We decided we should meet each other, (It goes without saying that Protosis was not included in this discussion). We tried to think of a reasonable, central location to meet, here in the States. We'd all meet at a bar, toss down some cocktails and beers, and pat each other on the back; put a face to the name as it were. We planned to meet in Chicago. I was in Indiana and could drive there in just a few hours, so it was really cool with me. We were getting close to setting a date.

A strange feeling came over me. It was foreign to me, and I didn't really understand it. But I couldn't shake it. It was an ominous feeling. I couldn't even decide if it was a bad feeling or a good feeling. I just knew that something major was going to happen. Something Earth-shattering. I told the folks on the forum what I was experiencing. I concluded that it was something subconscious telling me that a major event would take place when all of us got together in Chicago. It had to have something to do with that meeting. I couldn't think of anything else I had plans for any time soon, so that had to be it. The folks on the forum, the ones with kind of an open mind at least, agreed. This intrigued me a great deal and I really looked forward to this meeting.

Sometime later, I was on the forum, skimming through messages, and I came across that day's message from Protosis. I couldn't wait to read it because by this point, I was loving his messages. They made me laugh. HE made me laugh. I mean, what a character, eh? He was literally screaming at everyone all the time, "the Father!" this and "the Son" that... and all the while insulting people for their disbelief. He was like something out of a movie. I had never seen anything like it. I finally had gotten to the point where I considered his antics as pure entertainment. So anyway, I came across this post of his and opened it up immediately. In his message he was recounting an experience he had that day. He had no money, so he rode the bus all the time. That day, on the bus, he felt inspired. So, he set down his backpack, pulled his trusty bible out of it, and stood up. The bus was moving from stop to stop, but all the while, there was Protosis, loudly proclaiming the Word of God, reading Scripture from his bible! Protosis said he was very disappointed that so many people on the bus were telling him to stop and screaming at him. He said that he turned to them and told them to sit down and shut up. And he would then proceed to read more from the bible.

Needless to say, I was stunned. I'm one to always visualize what I read, so I was visualizing the entire episode. Again, it was like something straight out of a movie. I pictured the whole thing in my mind. I was really taken back by this. It's like, the thought of it pierced my very soul. Here was this Christian, this guy, that didn't fit the mold I had established for all Christians. He was the real deal. A true believer. I sat there for a while and just took it all in. Though I shook my head in "disbelief," I knew... I just knew.. this guy wasn't lying. He really did that. It blew my mind. I still thought of him as pretty much a comical nut, but still. At least he wasn't a fraud. I was going to have to update my personal definition of what it means to be Christian.

Later, I had a dream. Not just your normal dream; you know, those dreams that you wake up, and say "What a weird dream," and you try to recall it and get just bits and pieces. No, this was a dream for the record books. I couldn't get it out of my mind. I decided I would tell the forum about it. Here is how the dream went:
  • I entered what looked like a regular classroom like in a school. The classroom was filled with people, mostly adults, and the only thing different about it was, there was a stained glass window on a side wall, near the teacher's desk at the front of the class. I only knew one person in the class and that was an ex-coworker/friend/mentor of mine. He was my supervisor at a previous job and we became good friends. His name was Danny. So other than Danny, I didn't know anyone there. Behind me was a relatively short guy, about 5'2" with long blonde hair, who wore a tattered, flannel shirt. To the left of me was a big African American guy... not much taller than me, maybe about 5'11", but he was huge. He could have been a football player. And in walks the teacher. Interestingly, I never saw the teacher. But the class stood at attention, and the teacher announced that our homework for tonight was going to be to memorize some verses from 2 Timothy 2. Immediately the big guy to my left rolled his eyes and grumbled. The guy behind me, the short blonde haired guy, asked the big guy, "What's the problem?" The big guy said it was so difficult to memorize all these verses. The little blonde glared at him and said in a raised voice, "WHAT? You can't even be bothered to memorize a few verses? I could stand here and recite the ENTIRE book of 2 Timothy 2! Right now! So stop your complaining!"

    I was thinking... whoa, dude. Calm down... and then the little blonde directed his attention at me. I was a little frightened, to tell you the truth. With a disgusted look on his face, he set his eyes on me and shouted in an angry tone, "And YOU! What are YOU doing here!!!" At first I didn't know what to say. But, I looked at him straight in the face and in a quivering voice, I said, softly, "I... I'm here to learn." The little blonde walked up to me and made a gesture like he wanted to whisper something in my ear. I bent down to listen, and what came out was just some weird, high pitched tone. Nothing else.

    The next thing I knew, I was flat on my back in the class room. I looked up to see the people in the classroom gathered around me, looking down at me. The little blonde dude was kneeling above me, his knee pressed down against my chest. He let down a lock of his hair. When the lock sort of unrolled or uncurled over my face, some liquid dripped down. It dripped right into my mouth which I was holding wide open. Drip... drip... drip...

And that's it. That was the dream. But it was a powerful dream. This one, like no other, I could remember from start to finish, and all the details in between. So I decided to share the dream with the folks on the forum. I was curious about it and wanted their opinion.

... to be continued....
 
I've treated you very delicately. If my belief in the bible has you upset, then maybe you are better off thinking of me as gullible and foolish. We're all here for a reason. Just keep listening and participating. It will all work itself out.

My dear I am definitely not upset. Blimey if I got upset every time folk didn't like my POV I would be sobbing all the time! :D:D:D

In my opinion we are here because our parents had sex, unless we came about by IVF!
 
Hi Frost ...

I'm definitely enjoying your story ... can't wait for the next part ... !
I sent you a private message, hope it went thru ok ... It was my first time sending one, I hope I did it right ...
 
Okay, I'll tell you my story.

My parents were Jewish only in the ethnic/cultural sense of the word. They were both atheists. My mother, raised by religious Jews, rejected religion in adolescence. My father was born and raised an atheist. He was far more anti-religion than my Mom.

When I was in college, I started defining myself as agnostic, acknowledging the obvious fact that we can't know for sure. But I also began to feel the need for something spiritual in my life. At that time, most of my friends who practiced any religion were pagan. While I had nothing against that, it just didn't seem right for me. Because I so strongly identified myself as a Jew ethnically, it seemed logical to seek out Jewish spirituality.

Around that time I moved to Berkeley, which offered (and still does) a wonderful selection of ways to be a religious Jew. I tried a number of congregations before I hit the jackpot--High Holiday services run by a not-yet-famous Michael Lerner. It was magical, and spiritual, and moral. That was the beginning.

Today, I'm pretty comfortable with most non-Orthodox versions of Judaism. I currently don't belong to a big synagogue, but to two different chavarot (small congregations that meet in homes). I did not have a bar mitzvah, but my son did and my daughters had bat mitzvot.

And yet, I still describe myself as an agnostic. I have never met a religious Jew who has a problem with that.

Actually, lately I've been leaning towards Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan's concept of God, which rejects the supernatural. Kaplan defined God as anything that guides people to redemption, such as charity, good works, love, and awareness of the world around you.
 
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