Ultra-Orthodox Jews delay flight, refuse to sit next to women

[Nick the Pilot]

Ultra-Orthodox Jews delay flight, refuse to sit next to women | New York Post

"Hundreds of Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to women on an El Al jet from New York to Israel — and spent the 11-hour flight trying to bribe people to switch seats and loudly praying in the aisles when they refused.

“It was an 11-hour long nightmare,” one of the passengers told Israel’s ynet news Web site after the Wednesday morning flight landed.

"The flight – on the eve of Rosh Hashanah – was not only delayed, but degenerated into chaos once in the air, passengers said.

“Although everyone had tickets with seat numbers that they purchased in advance, they asked us to trade seats with them, and even offered to pay money, since they cannot sit next to a woman. It was obvious that the plane won’t take off as long as they keep standing in the aisles,” said passenger Amit Ben-Natan, a passenger.

"The flight crew told passengers they did not have to agree to a switch but the captain warned over the intercom that the flight would not take off with people standing in the aisles."

(cont.)

 

[Gordian Knot]

It is more and more disturbing to me that religious extremists in the U.S. expect more and more that their particular religious freedoms trump everyone else's in a public place. Whether it be Jews, or Christians, or whomever. I'm sick of it.

Do what you want in your private spaces like home and houses of worship. Fine. When in a public venue keep your damn attitudes to yourself!

 

[wil]

da hobby lobby effect

 

[Nick the Pilot]

They should have gotten seat assignments in a block. But nooooo...

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Here is a picture of everyone pushing and shoving.

h ttp://www.arcamax.com/newspics/109/10930/1093078.gif

 

[wil]

They should have gotten seat assignments in a block. But nooooo...

That costs more...

 

[Dan0813]

They should have gotten seat assignments in a block. But nooooo...

That costs more...

Do you know for a fact that the airline would support a request to assign a block of seats to accomodate a religious practice?

Personally, I'm skeptical that the people behaved properly, but still I respect them for trying to practice their religion, while I do not respect people who try to suppress religious practice in public.

 

[wil]

I have booked airlines for group flights, and booked them in a block (sending scouts to Philmont for hiking) ... it is not a problem, but does cost more to make seat selections for a group.

Supress a religious practice? If they want to fly they need to fly by the companies rules...and we don't need to bend for every fanatic... Or are you in favor of Sharia Law??

 

[Dan0813]

I have booked airlines for group flights, and booked them in a block (sending scouts to Philmont for hiking) ... it is not a problem, but does cost more to make seat selections for a group.

Supress a religious practice? If they want to fly they need to fly by the companies rules...and we don't need to bend for every fanatic... Or are you in favor of Sharia Law??

I know almost nothing about Sharia law, except that it's not Judaism. And Jews labelled as "ultra-orthodox" are rarely "fanatics", although the term "ultra-orthodox" is usually intended to portray them as such.

 

[wil]

Maybe you should do some research on what the ultra orthodox are doing in Israel and around the world...

 

[Dan0813]

Maybe you should do some research on what the ultra orthodox are doing in Israel and around the world...

Maybe you should review the forum rules regarding the use of the individual faith boards.

 

[wil]

Would you prefer this is discussed in politics and society? Nobody is decrying Jews or Judaism, but bigotry and using force against people in the name of religion.

Ultra-Orthodox man attacks Beit Shemesh woman over length of her skirt - National Israel News | Haaretz

Women Of The Wall Attacked By Ultra-Orthodox Haredim While Praying At Western Wall (PHOTOS)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8sWsSJfDzY

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/12/26/184706.html

Are you defending these actions?? In your mind are they warranted??

Judaism and the Jewish faith: issues and discussions

 

[Dan0813]

Nobody is decrying Jews or Judaism

Really? That seems to be exactly what the recent posts are doing.

From Interfaith forums - Forum Rules

NOTE: CR is intended to be a useful reference resource for people looking to find out more about specific religions.

In that regard, CR employs a “walled garden” approach to the individual faith boards.

This means that the individual faith boards are for persons of that faith to discuss faith issues in the context of their faith, and invite interested questions and discussions from persons outside of that faith about it.

CR does not support direct attacks on any faith, and suitable critical evaluations about any faith needs to be made on a more neutral board, such as the Comparative Studies, or Politics and Society, if it involves critical discussion of political events.

 

[wil]

So you are saying you do not invite the questions asked?

Christians here don't endorse KKK actions or those of the Westboro Baptist Church, and I have issues with our hobby lobby stance. I have no problem with Chik fila deciding not to open on Sundays....but do with issues that directly affect others.

Muslims on this board and elsewhere have said AlQueda and the warped Islam preached is not Muslim.

As in all these instances nobody is attacking faith of the major religion, but the actions of splinter groups that are not acting as the religion dictates.

Am I wrong? Are you saying the actions of these groups over the past decade (and beyond) are representative of Judaic attitudes when they directly attack Jews?

 

[Dan0813]

"splinter groups that are not acting as the religion dictates"

Are you qualified to make that determination in the case of Judaism?

And even if you are, making posts about such "splinter groups" in a faith-specific forum, not to gain understanding, but to convey the message "Look at these disturbed people! This is why religion is bad!" is disrepectful of that faith.

 

[wil]

I am reading the news, watching the videos and asking question of those that should know.

Are you saying the actions of these groups over the past decade (and beyond) are representative of Judaic attitudes when they directly attack Jews?

Are you defending these actions?? In your mind are they warranted??

 

[Gordian Knot]

Dan you have made statements in the past, I believe, that people are being disrespectful of faiths because they are attacking them. My issue here is that most of the time, what you call an attack I call a criticism of some type of religious behavior.

I am NOT saying that the criticism is justified or even accurate. A criticism made in good faith in an attempt to understand an issue is not an attack. We cannot learn if we do not question.

 

[Dan0813]

Do what you want in your private spaces like home and houses of worship. Fine. When in a public venue keep your damn attitudes to yourself!

I am NOT saying that the criticism is justified or even accurate. A criticism made in good faith in an attempt to understand an issue is not an attack. We cannot learn if we do not question.

Is "When in a public venue keep your damn attitudes to yourself!" a criticism made in good faith? It sure looks like an attack to me.

 

[Dan0813]

I am reading the news, watching the videos and asking question of those that should know.

If you want to learn about Judaism, there are accurate resources for that. Those provocative news links you posted are certainly not the ones to use. I'm not saying that you have a need to learn more about a faith other than your own, but before you start criticizing it, I think it's apppropriate.

 

[wil]

lol... I attend a local synagogue periodically... I go to Seders at various friends houses (so far not more than twice with any one family...I get lots of invites and like to compare the differences and haggadahs ) I've been to brisses and baby naming ceremonies and weddings...my business partner is Jewish as is my accountant and lawyer (both friends) I am surrounded by Jews (none ultra orthodox) and I can find none who I discuss this with that condone the behaviour of this crowd.

Now it seems I am conversing with one...You....who approves of their anti Zionist, anti Israel, anti everyone that believes other than they ways...

And you refuse to discuss it....on a religious discussion board.

What am I supposed to think?