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EdgyDolmen

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I have been on interfaith for a little over a month. Thanks for allowing me to participate. I tried to be inconspicuous for a while. For the most part, I have. Shoot, you may have run me off before an introduction was necessary. :)

Edgy Dolmen (66) - AMBA University of South Carolina 1973 - Married 45 years - Retired Restaurateur - Two Sons - Three Grandsons and one Granddaughter - Live in Southern USA - Hobbies are farming, collecting/restoring antique farm tractors, reading, world religions, philosophy, clone computers, SCORE (business mentoring for beginning entrepreneurs)

My story about faith is likely three paragraphs long. I suggest it is not that interesting to anyone except me. I'm not hiding it and will tell the story if it holds any interest for anyone...Edgy
 
Nick - As a young man I did away with Christianity for good. As a Southern Baptist I had always thought my life more abundant and more fulfilled than the lives of others who claimed satisfaction with their false religions or their non-religion. They were so far from the truth - how could they ever recognize it?
Certainly these misguided souls were in the grasp of Satan.

Then there came a point in time when I had to admit that many people without 'my' God or without any god had lives at least as abundant, joyful and fulfilled as mine. I realized as I got to know many such people that it had been disgustingly arrogant of me to measure other people's lives and purpose based on 'my' religion. The world I knew immediately changed and suddenly my religion could not keep up.

Christianity was now distant to me. The answer to the problem of God feeling distant was to spend more time in prayer and more time reading the Bible. I’d been told if you feel distant from God, guess who moved? However, studying the Bible was harming my faith, not helping. Prayer was no comfort. I found myself feeling insignificant instead of feeling exhilarated after prayer. Faith slowly diminish. And finally I had no faith in Christianity at all. None! I could read the book as an allegory. It was no longer the "Word".

Christians not only believe in an Infinite, Omniscient Being but many even believe in a Bible inspired by or written by that Being. It may appear arrogant of me to believe I can see how unreasonable that concept is while many believers more intelligent and better educated do not but frankly I believe each mind is a sovereign kingdom and I further believe neither intelligence nor education has a monopoly on reason, logic, commonsense or truth. I hold nothing against anyone's peaceful religion. No matter what that religion may be.

My metamorphosis both traumatized and enlightened. I had always based my purpose in life on that "Good Ol' Time Religion." I thought that without Christ, life was pointless. Yet, as I say, there were multiple examples of friends or persons in other religions or with no religion who lived meaningful, fulfilling, and even joy filled lives. I had always believed that living well without Christ was not possible. I am sure my observations of these friends provided my primary means and my source of courage to honestly face the questions I found and lose the fear of severing my binds with Christianity. The Bible, many Pastors, scores of Christian authors, philosophers and scholars had all failed to answer what I was finally able to simply observe.

When I read, “God is that which is greater than the human mind can conceive” , there it was - Agnostic. I accepted that statement and could say proudly GOD IS. I evolved and now rely on my reason, logic, commonsense and nature. I see and I experience the wonders. I am a Deist. We will cover that page later. Surely anybody who has read all this is tired of it. :)
 
wil said:
congrats on working with SCORE.... that is great...and I've got two uncles into tractors... one is red, one is green, you?
Click to expand...

SCORE is very rewarding. Been at it for quiet a while.

Tractors - I have red, blue and green or Farmall, Ford and Deere :)
 
Edgy, you said,
　
"As a young man I did away with Christianity for good."
　
--> I did the same thing.
　
"…there came a point in time when I had to admit that many people without 'my' God or without any god had lives at least as abundant, joyful and fulfilled as mine."
　
--> For a long time, I have felt that good Buddhists, good Hindus, good Muslims, etc., are making just as much progress towards ‘heaven’ as everyone else. (I do not find such a teaching in today’s Christianity.)
　
"The answer to the problem of God feeling distant was to spend more time in prayer and more time reading the Bible. I’d been told if you feel distant from God, guess who moved?"
　
--> There are so many ways to respond to this. But let me just say that I’m sorry to hear that you feel such a ‘distance’.
　
"…a Bible inspired by or written by that Being."
　
--> I believe that parts of the Bible have been intentionally changed and falsified down the centuries.
　
"My metamorphosis both traumatized and enlightened."
　
--> The good thing is that what you finally came up with is something that really fits you.
　
"…and lose the fear of severing my binds with Christianity."
　
--> A lot of Christianity is based on fear. I know of several people who have been unable to break away from Christianity because of the guilt trip that Christianity instills.
　
I would add that a lot of Christianity is based on worshipping a God, and there are those of us who see such worship as unnecessary.
　
"Surely anybody who has read all this is tired of it."
　
--> I don’t think so. Don’t discount your travels upon the path to the next level. It seems you are making good progress along the path.
　
 
Nick - As a Christian I felt distant. As a Deist I feel a distinct kinship!

I will elaborate just a little bit. Certainly there is much more than what follows but this is a short personal introduction. Some argue that Deism is philosophy and not a religion so to make it palatable to everybody I say call it what you please.

Deists see man’s relationship with God as impersonal and abstract. Many religions believe the relationship with God is personal in that God wants to know each of us as individuals and communicates directly with mankind. While that may be a comforting view Deists generally do not believe that is a practical view. Deists believe that an impersonal and indefinable God has a relationship with humanity only because of the relationship humanity has to Nature and because of man’s relationship to the Universe.

Deists honor God “the Creator” but generally do not “worship” Him. Most Deists have determined that worship would hold no relevance to the Creator. For what purpose would God require worship? Most Deists pray simply to honor or to give thanks or to meditate but not as an approach for begging for special consideration. The goal is to honor the Creator.

Deism is based on Reason therefore revelation by God to mankind or revelation through prophets or holy books is not germane because unless the revelation occurred to you, it is hearsay at best. A Deist’s inspiration comes from Nature and Reason and not from revelation provided by hearsay. The purpose of life is for man to have a purpose. That purpose would reasonably include living life to the fullest and living it in such a way as to ensure and secure and improve mankind’s current and future relationship to each other, to Nature and to the Universe and to the Creator.

Deists believe all men and women are equal. Although we do not accept any church authority we are tolerant of all religions except those that encourage or incite harm to others.

There are a few variations or "splinters" within Deism. Nothing earth shattering though...
 
Edgy, you said,

"As a Christian I felt distant. As a Deist I feel a distinct kinship!"
　
--> Fascinating!
　
"Some argue that Deism is philosophy and not a religion…"
　
--> What is your definition of "religion"?
　
"Deists see man’s relationship with God as impersonal and abstract."
　
--> I agree with the idea of such impersonality. But I believe there are intermediaries (guardian angels, minor deities, etc.), and that we can have ‘personal relationships’ with these entities.

"Most Deists have determined that worship would hold no relevance to the Creator. For what purpose would God require worship? Most Deists pray simply to honor or to give thanks or to meditate but not as an approach for begging for special consideration. The goal is to honor the Creator."

--> I agree with the idea of meditation.
　
"Deism is based on Reason therefore revelation by God to mankind or revelation through prophets or holy books is not germane because unless the revelation occurred to you, it is hearsay at best."
　
--> That’s one way to look at it. But I also believe that a certain period of discipleship is required in order for us to achieve nirvana. (But the trick is to find a qualified person to be a disciple of, isn’t it?)
　
"The purpose of life is for man to have a purpose. That purpose would reasonably include living life to the fullest and living it in such a way as to ensure and secure and improve mankind’s current and future relationship to each other, to Nature and to the Universe and to the Creator."
　
--> I would add that our goal is to become so absorbed in helping others that we completely forget about ourselves.
 
Hi ED –

So would I be right in thinking you a 'classical deist' then? Not that it matters, I suppose, it's a western thing to 'classify' and 'categorise', we do like to create schemes and structures.

But I never actually delved into the term before and voilà, my prior understanding was not well informed at all. It was limited to the deus absconditus notion of a god who set everything off then walked away.

Now I see there's all manner of degrees of deism, and I notice that Wil's Unity movement is under the deist umbrella. And DA's declared himself a deist ... so the odds are stacking up against me!
 
Nick - I have read many definitions for religion. All seem to fall short. One definition can not possibly define the hundreds of world religions. I may be able to give a better analogy than a good definition.

Religion is a lever and belief is its fulcrum - once pulled the lever moves everything in a person's life. Your beliefs define and support your vision of the world and your vision of the universe; they dictate your behavior; they determine your emotional responses and finally they define the Almighty.

So it seems to me that religion is defined by an unique individual belief.

P.S. - Please read my reply to Thomas.
 
Hello Thomas - I have trouble defining religion because it is too broad but as a specific I can define my belief. Yes I would say that I fit within the 'classical' Deist spectrum. Let me simplify it. I believe in God as Revealed by Nature and by Reason combined with a disbelief in scripture, prophets, superstition and church authority.

God does not hide from me. Every time I go to my farm and see the beauty of nature I am walking in my Cathedral. God is there. When I mentor a failing young know-it-all business person and a year later that person is a successful entrepreneur; God is there. He is with me always.

Yes as is true with all structures there are multiple splinters in the definition. However the basic tenets are there. Otherwise that person or group would necessarily be something other than Deist...Edgy
 
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