ten commandments...

wil

wil

UNeyeR1
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wil said:
Well just read the list again and tell me how any of them ANY of them is appropriate in a faith discussion
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Ok, if that's what you meant to say. I can't tell you how any of them (is) appropriate in a faith discussion, because I don't see any of them as appropriate.
 
I think NJ's saying in matters of faith, reason goes out the window. Maybe that's from his faith perspective. From the Christian pov, reason very much applies. As John Paul II famously (among Catholic theologians) wrote:

"Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).

The encyclicial then states:
INTRODUCTION - “KNOW YOURSELF”
1. In both East and West, we may trace a journey which has led humanity down the centuries to meet and engage truth more and more deeply. It is a journey which has unfolded—as it must—within the horizon of personal self-consciousness: the more human beings know reality and the world, the more they know themselves in their uniqueness, with the question of the meaning of things and of their very existence becoming ever more pressing. This is why all that is the object of our knowledge becomes a part of our life. The admonition Know yourself was carved on the temple portal at Delphi, as testimony to a basic truth to be adopted as a minimal norm by those who seek to set themselves apart from the rest of creation as “human beings”, that is as those who “know themselves”. (Fides et Ratio, John-Paul II)
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The list, it seem more argumentation oriented. I don't 'get' faith so I'm asking here: aren't reason distinct from but not mutually exclusive from faith? Perhaps build the foundation (axioms?) out of faith and build from there with reason?
 
I thought all of them are entirely appropriate for faith based discussions. The list summarises the gamut of false reasoning quite nicely, I think.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I don't 'get' faith so I'm asking here: aren't reason distinct from but not mutually exclusive from faith? Perhaps build the foundation (axioms?) out of faith and build from there with reason?
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Spot on. That's what Aquinas' Summa Theologiae is all about.
 
nah, I just think using these debate tricks is not a valid way to convince others whatever reasonable/logical belief one has...

Belief doesn't have to be reasonable...it has to be useful...in my book.
 
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