Matthew 7:1-2

Lux

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During the course of arguing with Trumpsters, particularly when I criticized Trumps' not-so-Christian-like rhetoric and behaviors, I was often told (oh, if I had a nickel for every time), "If you're Christian, then don't judge, the Bible says so."

I believe they were referring to the passage :

Matthew 7:1-2
1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.


I often retorted as below.

I interpret the verses this way. The second verse is clarifying how to judge. If you are judging others for something you yourself are also doing, then you're ignoring plank in you eye and you will be judged "with the same measure you use".

So, for example, if I own or work at a strip club or even go there as a customer, then I should not judge Trump. If I'm also calling for killing innocent Muslims (terrorists' families), then I should not judge Trump. But I do neither of those, so when I get judged "with the same measure I use", I'm fine.

Am I correct in understanding the meaning of the passage?
 
During the course of arguing with Trumpsters, particularly when I criticized Trumps' not-so-Christian-like rhetoric and behaviors, I was often told (oh, if I had a nickel for every time), "If you're Christian, then don't judge, the Bible says so."
Oh, the smart-arse loves to pull a Biblical quote out of the hat. It's possible to justify just about anything by doing that.

Matthew 7 — like any quote — needs to be read in the context of the entire discourse, else it's just words afloat in the ether, as it were.

Matthew 7 is part of the Sermon on the Mount, the key to which are the Beatitudes.

Jesus comes down on the side of the underdog. So anyone who comes down on the side of the 'overdog', who sets up an 'us and them' and then blames 'them' and then goes so far as to imply that to be true to yourself involves kicking the arse of those weaker than you is not in the spirit of the Beatitudes.

I don't condemn Trump. I just think he talks bollocks.
 
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What a huge difference there is between discernment and judging. A human being's first knee jerk reaction to anything is usually self-justification. This is just psych 101, but you can see how nearly anyone who clings tightly to a sense of "me" is drawn to such chicanery.
 
Oh, the smart-arse loves to pull a Biblical quote out of the hat. It's possible to justify just about anything by doing that.

Matthew 7 — like any quote — needs to be read in the context of the entire discourse, else it's just words afloat in the ether, as it were.
That's the biggest problem with the way most people read the Bible. They're quick to quote a verse, but often ignore the subject.
 
I tell you NJ, some of the biggest 'enlightenments' I've had is in contemplation of Scripture when you put yourself in the story as a fly-on-the-wall, as it were, and embrace the whole thing, rather than just read the text.

Sometimes you just need informed commentary. To get what's going in when Simon the Pharisee invites Jesus to dinner (Luke 7), it helps to know the social habits of the day, and then you get a sense of the one-upmanship games going on, and then Jesus takes his host to task ...

Sometimes you need to sit and dwell on the text. My mum delights in my 'biography' of Peter, for example. To my mind, a bloke who doesn't suffer fools, nor has much time for the poor and meek. A macho man. Favourite hobby: Bouncing rocks off Roman skulls. Least-favourite hobby: Feeding sheep. Motto: Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough ... What his friends say: Fools rush in ... You know that bit in the Godfather when the author talks about the Don having a hard-man at his side? That's Peter ... he's an archetype ... they all are ...

'Where do you get this from?' she asks. It's there in the text ...
 
I tell you NJ, some of the biggest 'enlightenments' I've had is in contemplation of Scripture when you put yourself in the story as a fly-on-the-wall, as it were, and embrace the whole thing, rather than just read the text.
Right there with you on that.
You know that bit in the Godfather when the author talks about the Don having a hard-man at his side? That's Peter
LOL, indeed! ... and he was armed too! John 18:10 "Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus."
 
During the course of arguing with Trumpsters, particularly when I criticized Trumps' not-so-Christian-like rhetoric and behaviors, I was often told (oh, if I had a nickel for every time), "If you're Christian, then don't judge, the Bible says so."
Bit of a stretch making Mathew 7:1-2 work in regard to Trump. As far as twisting Bible verses goes, I should think John 8:7 would work better, ...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Oh, the smart-arse loves to pull a Biblical quote out of the hat. It's possible to justify just about anything by doing that.
Quite.
My mum delights in my 'biography' of Peter, for example. To my mind, a bloke who doesn't suffer fools, nor has much time for the poor and meek. A macho man. Favourite hobby: Bouncing rocks off Roman skulls. Least-favourite hobby: Feeding sheep. Motto: Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough ... What his friends say: Fools rush in ... You know that bit in the Godfather when the author talks about the Don having a hard-man at his side? That's Peter ... he's an archetype ... they all are ...
Never heard it put that way before mate. I like it. Reminds me of the Monty Python bit the Dinsdale Brothers. "He's a cruel man, but fair"
 
Doug and Hinsdale Piranha! Good grief, I'd forgotten them!
 
INTERLUDE ...

For those unfortunate enough to be born distant from these wondrous isles ... an explanation might be in order ...

Doug and Dinsdale Piranha were gangland characters in a Monty Python sketch, loosely based on Ronnie and Reggie Kray, a pair of malevolent twins who rose to become criminal kingpins in London in the 60s. They were eventually arrested by Leonard 'Nipper' Read, who was morphed in the MP sketch into Harry 'Clapper' Organs, although the reason for his nickname was never explained!

Stream-of-consciousness takes me to the Goon's racing correspondent 'Hugh Jampton', a play on 'huge Hampton', cockney rhyming slang, Hampton = Hapton Wick, Wick rhymes with ... this was in the day when the Green Book at the BBC stated what could and could not be said, and innuendo was definitely out. Famously, 'Winter draws on' was banned by the BBC.

I also recall a tutor I had at college who used to sit at the bar of a West End nightclub doing pen sketches of clientele on napkins. She'd gone there with friends, done one, the barman saw it and showed it to the boss ... from then on she had a regular chair at the bar, cos punters coming to have their portrait sketched would buy a drink. One night the barman said, "The boss wants to know how you get home." "Bus," she said. Word came back: "The boss isn't happy with you going home alone late at night. He's organised a car." And she would get chauffeured home in a Rover by two nice young men who were always very proper and polite. One night, driving through Holland Park, the driver said, "Look! There's Harry!" They pulled up, jumped out, threaded Harry's arms through the park railings and broke them, then drove on. Harry had upset the boss. The boss was the Krays.

The Krays became folk heroes. They had their portraits shot by David Bailey. At one time, speak to anyone in the East End of London and they'd brag about knowing them. They were nasty, vicious pieces of work. One gangmember who turned evidence spoke of the night they tortured one of their own to extract a piece of information. Electric shocks in a bath full of water. "Did he have it?" "No. Didn't know anything." "Do you think he knew?" "Oh no, we all knew he didn't know." "Then why torture him?" "Cos the boss said, and you did what the boss said."

There's one ex 60s gangster who's still now a minor TV celebrity! His 'claim to fame' was he owned a pig farm. Pigs eat everything, including the bodies various gangs used to bring him.

Nice.

Anyway ... a long way from Matthew 7!
 
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