Hope yet

Thomas

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From New Scientist:

WHAT’S the point of old men? We women have had our postmenopausal existence justified, in evolutionary terms, by the grandmother hypothesis. But the same cannot be said for men. The mystery is why they live long past their physical prime, with muscles turning to flab and potency waning.

In How Men Age, we have an answer. Biological anthropologist Richard Bribiescas covers some interesting uncharted territory. This is not a mere description of ageing. Instead, by considering male ageing in the light of natural selection, it aims to answer big questions including why men’s lifespans are shorter than women’s, why baldness, prostate disease and erectile dysfunction are so prevalent, and how humans as a species have benefited from men’s tendency to run to fat.

From an evolutionary perspective, nothing matters more than sex. And as far as men are concerned, nothing influences sexual power more than testosterone. It increases libido, promotes muscle growth and encourages risk-taking behaviour – all of which help attract a mate. But testosterone peaks in early adulthood, so that men are past their physical prime by the age of 30. It’s tempting to see it as all downhill from there. But with wit and insight, Bribiescas shows convincingly that’s not the case.

He points out that testosterone has a dark side – it can increase a man’s metabolic rate and suppress the immune system. In other words, there’s a trade-off, or as Bribiescas puts it: “macho makes you sick”. High levels of the hormone early in life help explain why men don’t live as long as women and why they are prone to prostate cancer later on. So waning testosterone can be seen as a positive development. It may make older men less physically competitive against younger ones, but men can produce offspring throughout their lives and, argues Bribiescas, as they age they develop new reproductive strategies to achieve this.

What’s more, older men tend to become more nurturing. As testosterone decreases, a man’s girth increases, and the metabolic changes associated with growing adiposity promote care of offspring. Bribiescas calls this the “pudgy dad hypothesis”, and argues that it has implications for the evolution of our species as a whole.

Humans live far longer than other primates. For longevity to evolve, natural selection must favour long-lived individuals. Older women cannot reproduce, so they are out of the running. But if, throughout human history, pudgy older men have been fathering children, then they will have passed on genes associated with longevity to both daughters and sons.
 
Funny thing is... I've been divorced since 2002...always dating women 20-30 years younger...

No intention of raising any more.children though...

Wierd thing, past few months ....first time in a over a decade I've been attracted to a few women my own age...

Wots up with that?
 
Interesting article. I wonder if the entire concept is flawed, however. Why old men posits a simple truth. There are old men.

But is that the natural order of things? Before the amazing advancements in medicine and healing, drugs to cure diseases, replacement parts to extend functionality (of a knee for example). All are extending the lives of men (and women, of course) far beyond what the age limit has been for millennia. For most of our span as a species, living to 30 was average; living to 50 was extraordinary. Our body chemistry seems to support the concept that 30 to 40 years of age was the appropriate 'natural' lifespan for the species.

All these thoughts on the consequences of our elderly status, from say 50 to 100 are almost completely a result of our human discoveries to extend life spans. As such there may be no biological explanations for older people. They were never meant to be!
 
All these thoughts on the consequences of our elderly status, from say 50 to 100 are almost completely a result of our human discoveries to extend life spans. As such there may be no biological explanations for older people. They were never meant to be!
Really?

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Genesis 9:29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

Deuteronomy 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Human discoveries extending our life span? Maybe, as far as finding ways to compensate for our own ability to shorten it are concerned.;)
 
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OK, DA, but recent increases as you say are due to external conditions: better food, better medicines, etc. But the human species far outlives the other primates, so the genetic factors regarding longevity would have taken a lot longer to impact.

As regards commonly stated life expectancies, I am always And I tend to agree with NJ — I'm told in the Middle Ages the average life expectancy was around 40-50 years, and then read about people who lived well beyond that.

Same with my interest in medieval Japan. In one family in the 15th century a grandfather was 'hale and hearty' at 80. And those characters who survived conflicts etc., lived out their three score years and ten.

A quick look at wiki suggests that life expectancy is calculated at birth (LEB), which renders an average significantly lower than the life expectancy of someone aged 21 — that is, infant and childhood mortality rates were really high, and still are in the Third World.

I've grabbed this from wiki:
Paleolithic LEB 33 (Based on the data from recent hunter-gatherer populations); at age 15, you can expect to see the mid 50s.
Classical Rome LEB 20–30; at 10, looking at another 37.5 years, so late 40s.
Medieval Islamic Caliphate LEB 35+. Average lifespan of scholars was 59–84.3 years in the Middle East and 69–75 in Islamic Spain.
Late medieval English peerage LEB 30. At 21, life expectancy was an additional 43 years – total age 64.
1900 world average 31.
1950 world average 48.
2010 world average 67.
 
Really?

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived

Oh come on now. These life spans are for very specific religious titans in the Biblical canon. I do not believe anyone has ever suggested that this type of age was common to everyone else living at the time. And that is even if one is willing to accept that these few indivisual actually lived these kinds of lifespans. Metaphorically, these kind of things tend to get exaggerated.
 
OK, DA, but recent increases as you say are due to external conditions: better food, better medicines, etc. But the human species far outlives the other primates, so the genetic factors regarding longevity would have taken a lot longer to impact.

Okay so unless I misunderstand your point you are agreeing that humans live a lot longer today because of advances in living conditions. I'm not understanding what the lifespans of primates have to do with this. Human males reach their biological peak in their 30s. Average lifespans across your entire list of examples is in the 30 to 40 year range. With 50 to 60 years possible. And there were individuals who could live longer depending on a lot of factors both biologically and socially.

The earliest humans, who lived the most primitive and dangerous lives tended to die young. If they survived to their mid teens they have a reasonable expectation of making to their 50s. But the latter age group would have been very old men. The prime of life for primitive humans was in the 30 year range. Which has remained with us to this day. Even though most of us can expect to live 3 times as long, if not longer.

I expect I am missing something from your comments though. And I don't know (obviously) what that is.
 
I got this from what Thomas quoted:

A quick look at wiki suggests that life expectancy is calculated at birth (LEB), which renders an average significantly lower than the life expectancy of someone aged 21 — that is, infant and childhood mortality rates were really high, and still are in the Third World.

Paleolithic LEB 33 (Based on the data from recent hunter-gatherer populations); at age 15, you can expect to see the mid 50s
.

Which I translated in my own words to mean that between birth and mid-teens the chances of dying were very high. But if you made into your mid-teens, one had a reasonable expectation of living into the mid 50s. Now I may be misunderstanding what Thomas said and if so I'm sure he will tell me where I went wrong. And if he IS saying something other than what I thought he was saying, I will need to adjust my comments accordingly.
 
Oh come on now. These life spans are for very specific religious titans in the Biblical canon. I do not believe anyone has ever suggested that this type of age was common to everyone else living at the time.
Yeah, I'll give you that. These are extreme examples. My only point was we were meant to live longer than we do and that we ourselves have shortened our own life expectancy. Medical science however, has countered with ways to compensate for our bad habits and keep us alive much longer.
 
I got this from what Thomas quoted:

A quick look at wiki suggests that life expectancy is calculated at birth (LEB), which renders an average significantly lower than the life expectancy of someone aged 21 — that is, infant and childhood mortality rates were really high, and still are in the Third World.

Paleolithic LEB 33 (Based on the data from recent hunter-gatherer populations); at age 15, you can expect to see the mid 50s
.

Which I translated in my own words to mean that between birth and mid-teens the chances of dying were very high. But if you made into your mid-teens, one had a reasonable expectation of living into the mid 50s. Now I may be misunderstanding what Thomas said and if so I'm sure he will tell me where I went wrong. And if he IS saying something other than what I thought he was saying, I will need to adjust my comments accordingly.
Now I see what you're saying!
 
Two points ...

One was the study was looking at how we evolved to live longer than our primate cousins, rather than what the average life expectancy is in given conditions. DA, you might have more insights on that, that I've missed? I seem to recall an American study recently, with so many people surviving beyond 100, suggesting that 120 years was a maximum?

Secondly, and far more importantly, what really matters is old farts like me and Wil (and I'm guessing a few others), have still got something to offer the ladies after all these years, even if it is someone to cuddle and a decrease in the threat threshold.

I declared to the family that Dr Alan Statham of Green Wing fame (check him out) is my role model approaching my twilight years. I really want to be a curmudgeonly old bugger, although in retrospect I seem to have achieved that here more successfully than elsewhere in my life. My wife threatens to leave me if I do, my daughters just pat me on the head and smile.
 
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