Bliss.... Again

Again, we're into subjective definitions ...

On a Christian forum I'd be more reserved about using the term 'bliss', as it's redolent of so many other traditional conceptions, and the term is largely and commonly defined by Hindu and Buddhist ideas than by Christian.

'Bliss' doesn't occur in the Bible, nor does its synonyms. In fact the closest term I can find is 'paradise', but this is never used of a subjective state, rather the reference to the pre-lapsarian Garden.

As your philosophy, from what I can glean of it, is that of a naturalism within a pantheist view of the world, then I can fully understand your experience within that frame of reference. If however, you were equating that experience with an order of Christian pneumatology, (the term being more properly 'beatitude' or simply 'grace'), then I'd say there is an utter distinction of meaning, the Christian idea being something your own declared perspective disallows, as the Christian is founded in an utterly transcendent ontology.

Generally, the appeal of religious pluralism in the west is the assumption that it makes 'religious experience' more accessible (largely the basis on which the idea is sold), whereas it does the opposite, it tends to the private and parochial. 'My' narrative is more important or at least as equally as important as any other; it is more true (if such was possible) for me than perhaps for you; more authentic (ditto) ...

Once definitions become subjectively determinable, they become meaningless.
 
Quick look at definitions... Yup this works..

informal
reach a state of perfect happiness, typically so as to be oblivious of everything else.
"blissed-out hippies"

When it happens, heat, sorrow, pain, worldly problems, personal problems cease to exist...the other day it was sweating on a couch... Had a moment while camping last week and fighting gallstones laying in a hammock in the woods....for minutes, not a care and then the pain came back, while daydreaming, after meditation, walking across a hot parking lot in 99% humidity heading to a meeting which was sure not to go my way yet inexplicably did.

Is it simply endorphins, dopamine, seratonin? It is often when I am in extreme pain...gall stones, kidneystones...extremely uncomfortable heat (subjective)...or just mindless...

Who knows...but yeah, seemingly nothing to do with my belief....but my physical experience.
 
I'm glad for you.

Such moments, especially in a life burdened by ailment, signify to me a ... 'healthy'?, 'proper', 'mindful'? 'Zen'? ... whatever, a good and useful disposition towards pain-management issues. Some people get overwhelmed by it, you have found a way to manage and, if it is endorphins (or as someone said recently, 'them dolphins'), then in a sense you're 'self medicating' at an holistic level the world could learn from!

As for 'blissed-out hippies', we could do with a few more with a right mindset, IMHO ... don't suppose there's any chance of you cornering Trump at a donut shop or something, sitting him down in a booth, and having a chat? :) Maybe you have the healing touch, maybe just reach out and ... oh ... no, this is sounding weird now :oops: ... scrub that last bit.
 
I often wonder if he is here to make us think before we leap... To examine clearly the consequences of our actions, the repercussions of our words.

His presidency may be a warning for generations to come...or the reason we let AI take over the task.
 
I think perhaps in Christian tradition the word used is 'peace'. The peace which passeth all understanding? The indwelling Christ. In the world but not of the world. Peace of mind in the midst of trials, etc?

Then the bodhisattva issue: may a truly enlightened being allow him/herself to enter nirvana while other sentient beings suffer from the worldly desire effects of unenlightenment?

But I think the bliss is there in Christian tradition. I think it would be wrong to portray it as a religion of suffering. Imo
 
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If I said 'peace' or 'love' rather than 'bliss', would that make it more apparent? Same thing. I might say 'beatitude' or 'blessedness', although the former is somewhat technical.

Bliss denotes ecstasy ... If anyone's interested we could resurrect the discussion on the distinctions between 'eros' and 'agape' in the Christian Tradition.

My own view is that extreme ecstatic experiences are the result of a 'flooding' or a 'short circuit'; the overwhelming of the physical sensorium brought about by the incapacity of the sensorium to adequately translate the transcendent aspects of a given experience in the spiritual sensorium. This can lead to fits, fainting, etc.

But in term of ecstatics, nearly all the saints, certainly the well-known ones, speak of bliss-like states, notably the women, but this might just be something in the language. St Theresa for example, or St Catherine of Sienna, or Julian of Norwich. Looking at the men, there's St Francis, in fact all the founders of the religious orders were ecstatics, even that dry old stick St Thomas Aquinas. Then there's St John of the Cross, Padre Pio ...

Hesychasm in the Orthodox Traditions is ecstatic.

The earliest I can think of us St Paul:
"I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), That he was caught up into paradise, and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter." (2 Corinthians 2:12)

Through to the likes of David Steindl-Rast and others alive today.

Curiously, the saint/mystic who I would argue was not bliss/experiential/ecstatic was Meister Eckhart.
 
wil said:
I have no issues with ecstasy, but I'd say my levels of unidentified source bliss have always fell short of that.
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OK ... I think this boils down to semantics. One man's bliss is another man's whatever.

I'd agree that 'ecstasy' suggests something full-on (and most spiritual traditions are somewhat suspicious of ecstatic states, Buddhism and Orthodox Christianity especially, I think post-reformation Christian denominations tend to rule it out, although it's back in favour with evangelicals?).

Ecstasies are increasingly suspect as our understanding of neuroscience grows. Especially the examples of self-induced states, whether or not these are chemically enhanced.

Where you define your own as 'unidentified source bliss' I'd say most would read that as a natural phenomena, and can range from a sense of well-being to a full blown near-orgiastic uplifting.

Ecstasies in the context of spiritualities, be they simply a sense of peace, goodwill, belonging, universal love, to full-on states are more focussed and defined, they're contextual within the given spiritual paradigm.

It's interesting, for example, that the Orthodox Patriarchies regard with deep suspicion the personal experiences of the type attributed to St Augustine, and indeed nearly all the female saints in the Latin Tradition who tend to express themselves rather subjectively.
 
And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home." 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

According to the Biblical narrative the level of faith was the deciding factor in the quality of miracles, showing (the spirit in) Jesus was only activating the faith in people, depending on how they consciously judge themselves will determine their receptiveness.
And Jesus said to him, "Go, for your faith has healed you." Instantly the man could see, and he followed Jesus down the road.


Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
 
I am enjoying a state of semantics again. I still.have a long way to go to regain my strength, I am looking at a few months of cardiac rehab, my eyesight issues are driving me nuts yet minor compared to many...but my level of bliss, my gratitude for life, friends, docs, meds, healing are all encompassing. Overwhelming the foibles in these times, it's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
 
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That it can. Finding out you were and brought back iseye opening. But my Bliss thoughts and discussion predates it.

Interestingly enough my spiritual beliefs remain untouched after all that, only my thoughts of extreme.life saving measures and do not resuscitate have changed
..lol
 
Written by the famed Anglican author C.S. Lewis in 1948. Very applicable to today:

“How are we to live in an atomic age?’ I am tempted to reply: ‘Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of chronic pain, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents.’

In other words, do not let us begin by exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love were already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented: and quite a high percentage of us were going to die in unpleasant ways.

It is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one more chance of painful and premature death to a world which already bristled with such chances and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty.

The first action to be taken is to pull ourselves together. If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb when it comes find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about death. They may break our bodies (a microbe can do that) but they need not dominate our minds.”
 
Oops... I almost did it again.

I experienced...what I perceive as Bliss...

I have been a little off my game, lethargic and ill since I returned from 2 weeks on the beach. Had covid prior, burned the candle at both ends at the beach and then some bug after....but yesterday...some bliss.

Now looking for this thread I see it is my third thread on the topic....2009, again 2012...I have an interest in reread I ng them all to see how thoughts change but don't wish to distort those thoughts by these thoughts. (As I wonder if the three should be combined)

You know people pay for therapy and I use this forum...do I owe you folks anything?

There is that bliss...the comfort of a community I have never met...thx.

Last evenng at dusk I went for a walk. And everything was right in the world. What I mean by that is every house, every car, every yard, every encounter was joyous. I looked at the dead wood of grape vines and saw them thriving in the spring. I looked at an old 70s rusty pickup on the curb and wondered when the last time it was driven, saw an old boat in the back yard and started feeling sorry for them both as not having gone out on the bay in years but that thought was replaced by the memories folks obviously had of when that boat and truck were in their prime hauling families fishing and water skiing...how much joy was had by the kids and adults to the point where the two (boat and truck) energies anthropomorphised into memories the two had of all their trips together. I looked at a vine covered house not as deteriorating and problematic but the plants using what scaffolding they could find for life.

My knee ached, my breath wained but as I sat to rest I was thankful of the bench and my view...guys working overtime to repair a gas main...a natural gas company I have complained about...doing long overdue maintenance I was now simply grateful for...everywhere I looked...all was right in the world...and I saw it as good.

That is bliss to me....and now, sharing, remembering, writing, my mind and being is brought into that again...over half a day later...bliss...thank you...and you...and...
 
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