A Great Response

[Sacredstar]

Dear Blue

Tectonic plates don't understand 'evil'.... I am sure.

Depends how you interpret evil...tectonic plates do interact with the rest of the earth, and when the people are unbalanced and in chaos this then effects the earth, and then the cause and effect compounds and the earth effects us. It is a never ending cycle that will indeed continue, until such time as humanity wakes up, and truly appreciates the absolute and crucial neccesity for engaging in a committed relationship with mother earth and the universe of divinity.

Science and intellectual thought brought us great thinkers, but in the process we lost touch with our spiritual, divine and sentient being. we left behind what was crucial for man's survival, being one with all that IS.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar

 

[Ryuuko]

Dear SacredStar,

You're quite right--scientists are now only waking up to the idea that we're not as separate of Earth as we originally thought. Everything is interconnected, and what affects one affects us all.

Blue, perhaps I should not have generalized by saying that EVERY scholar believed the earth to be flat, but the point is, quite a few of them did, which brings me back to my original point: it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Sacredstar]

I discovered yesterday that these plates can be affected by explosions, how many bombs does humanity think that mother earth can take? How many gun shots, how many explosions in the sea?

Sacredstar

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


you know what i took from the alleged interaction between student and teacher?

it's a Chick Tract.

of course, we're not told what type of professor the student is arguing with, thus, it would be fairly disengenious to imply that the professor is wrong about a question of physics if the professor is not a physics professor. said professor is not required to know any more physics than the average high school student. they are require to know the subject matter that they teach.

the second thing that i learned from that email was that appeals to incredulity are alive and well.

 

[Vajradhara]

I discovered yesterday that these plates can be affected by explosions, how many bombs does humanity think that mother earth can take? How many gun shots, how many explosions in the sea?

Sacredstar

these plates are effected by people being born or dying on them as well.

it's really quite interesting. the term to query for is Isostasis.

 

[aladdin]

for Blue- I don't know what is the point of arguing with everyone's post's on the basis of the other people's thoughts not being "reasonable" enough, this is great for an atheist club or a logic club personally.

Some of the arguments I think he makes do occasionally foster more questioning of one's beliefs but I find most of them critical.

Their perspective lacked understanding of the facts and the application of reason. They could not 'see' the facts, either through sheer ignorance, or through nurture that ensured they perceived the world through erroneous doctrines and dogmas.

Are you so arrogant to think you see all the facts perfectly now? Whenever a discovery is made and a new system of thought takes place, it is in a way we could never imagine before!

If you don't think that we can see all facts perfectly now than why do you argue with everyone's post and ORIGINAL thoughts.

I don't mean to pick on you it is just making me feel frustrated. People who encourage other people to think in boxes just drive me nuts. If this was a chemistry forum I might be more sympathetic to your type of posts.


I just value original thoughts more than anything else.

Certainly some people might be enjoying your points I just find them bland and everything I write I KNOW someone can come alonga nd say "This is not logical or reasonable" ...but I think encouraging creative thought is wonderful, to

 

[BluejayWay]

appeals to incredulity are alive and well.

You all can help prove this statement by a simple experiment. Just sign over and send your next paycheck to me.

 

[Vajradhara]

You all can help prove this statement by a simple experiment. Just sign over and send your next paycheck to me.

er... wouldn't that be gulibility?

 

[Friend]

Namasté everyone,

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does
not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like
darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of
God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist
just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that
comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no
light."

Salaam to all

This story is good ,but we must know that our God never be absence , he always exists he create us in this life and give us the ability to choose between the evil and good things , and we are in a long test to ready for the life after death , if we choose the right path we will be save and if we choose the evil path we will fail . Justice will coming at the end .​

​

​

To see the value of good things or behaviors you must see the bad ones.​

you should think about our God fear in your life and after your death at the same time to accept the evils from others and to follow the teaching of "Ieesa" Gesus (Peace upon him )As christian ,and for me Mohameed (peace upon him ) As Muslim So we can face evil with peace .​

​

 

[BluejayWay]

er... wouldn't that be gulibility?

Well, seeing as how nobody is filling my inbox with requests for my snail addy, I'd say most folks around here are incredulous about my little experiment--

(...and I don't quite believe I went into brain catatonia there, but the evidence is very plain, ain't it? )

...we can face evil with peace .

And I'll say a big Amen to that!
Evil cannot be defeated by the same weapons that evil uses. We keep trying to fight fire with fire, and the effort is futile.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Friend

Justice will coming at the end. You should think about our God fear in your life.

How do you reconcile GOD that you fear in your life with the GOD most merciful and most gracious?

From my experience there is no failure in GOD's eyes, the worst that happens is that we have to come back to earth and do it all again in the cycle of rebirth.

being love

Sacredstar

 

[Friend]

Dear Friend



How do you reconcile GOD that you fear in your life with the GOD most merciful and most gracious?

From my experience there is no failure in GOD's eyes, the worst that happens is that we have to come back to earth and do it all again in the cycle of rebirth.

being love

Sacredstar

I'm so sorry about this mistake in dictation , I mean Justice or fair

"you should think about our God fair in your life and after your death at the same time to accept the evils from others ."

However,we must fear from our God because there are reward and punishment at the end , or after death .it is not a cycle of rebirth we live then we will transmit to another stage of life .

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Friend

How do you reconcile the GOD of punishment with the GOD mot gracious and merciful?

being love

Sacredstar

 

[Faithfulservant]

Hi

Dear Friend

How do you reconcile the GOD of punishment with the GOD mot gracious and merciful?

being love

Sacredstar

From a Christian standpoint

The scriptures talk about Gods wrath from the beginning to the end. They also give the Way so we do not have to face His wrath and judgement. We make the mistake of limiting God to one particular aspect and we dont deal with the rest. Yes he has shown us his mercy and grace through Jesus Christ but are we also going to blind ourselves to the angry jealous God that commands we have no God but him that we dont steal that we dont bear false witness that we dont use his name or worship carved images that we dont honor our parents that we honor the sabbath.. we are all held to those ten commandments and face the consequences unless we accept the gift he gave us through our Savior.

Bible history has shown Gods wrath anger and judgement Bible history has also shown his mercy and grace and love.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Faithful Servant

 

[Blue]

Friend,
You said:

"Salaam to all

This story is good ,but we must know that our God never be absence , he always exists he create us in this life and give us the ability to choose between the evil and good things , and we are in a long test to ready for the life after death , if we choose the right path we will be save and if we choose the evil path we will fail . "

Why must we know?
How do you know? It is just your FAITH, which is personal and affective,that tells you it is so.
That does NOT make it so as some universal truth! (Just because you say it, my friend.)

Can you not CHOOSE a 'right path' without FAITH? Can you not judge the rightness of a path for yourself using reason and logic... rationally?

What is your FAITH going to "save" you from, my friend? How do you KNOW whatever your reason?

Why do people who choose 'evil' (in common judgements) paths and yet succeed?

New Year Greetings.

 

[Friend]

Friend,

You said:
"Salaam to all
This story is good ,but we must know that our God never be absence , he always exists he create us in this life and give us the ability to choose between the evil and good things , and we are in a long test to ready for the life after death , if we choose the right path we will be save and if we choose the evil path we will fail . "
Why must we know?

How do you know? It is just your FAITH, which is personal and affective,that tells you it is so.

That does NOT make it so as some universal truth! (Just because you say it, my friend.)

Alsalamu Alyckum my friend Blue.



I know that every one of us has his own faith , but I think we all have a mind .I is not only my faith but also the logic made it truth .

I want to tell you how I reached to the truth of Allah existence all the time and in every place .​

I used the scientific method to prove to myself the existence of the great creator ,if we want to test or prove certain theory or issue we must first collect information and data that related to this issue , then we must develop hypothesis which is here the existence of Allah ,after that we must follow deep analytical approach to test my hypothesis and to prove the accuracy of it . ​

I have two kind of resources of my information the physical resource around me and the Quranic resource (which presented the ability of the creator by his words before 1400 years ago which is proved by a science nowaday ).​

​

The phenomenon that prove the existence of Allah :​

1 -The organizational arrangement solar system and the position of the earth in this system which give us the ability to stay living on this earth . The earth move around itself to form the sequence day and night cycle ,Is it by a chance that this movement is essential for the mankind and others being to practice their activities and to live on this earth ?,Also the science discover new important thing about the benefit of this phenomenon to mankind which is the " The Biological Hour " that happened inside our body at night and while we sleeping it is important for re-organized our body system.​

The earth move around the sun in a certain path if it is deviate even a few distance from it's path it will destroy the life on this earth ,this movement form the four seasons in the majority part of the earth to provide the essential conditions for the life cycle.​

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2- the earth is protected by Gas layers ,is this gas structure formed by a chance ? Is it by a chance that we are protected from the negative effect of the outside rays by this Gas layers ?​

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3- The water cycle and the secret water properties that is different from any other material .( we all know that the water size increase when it's temperature reach a certain point which is zero to degree form ice ,while other material decrease in size when it's temperature decrease because it's molecules be close to each other in that case .​

the wonderful situation in this secret behavior of water is the importance of it to save the life of the beings under the water ,when the temperature decrease the formed ice float in the seas surface and provide energy to the water of sea and save the beings inside the water sea ,at the same time the density of the ice is decrease while the temperature decrease opposite to the others material, which keep the water float at the water surface and does not sink inside the water which if happened may cause flood, also ice adjust the temperature degree on the earth when it send energy to the air and to the water .​

Is this abnormal behavior of water occur by accident ?remember that water covered 3/4 of the earth surface.​

​

4-the amazing atomic structure give us big evidence that there are a great creator create it in this structure , it is have the same organizational system is the big solar system , it is have nucleus and electronic move in a certain path a round it . Every material in this world consist of the same components ( Electrons ,Protons ,Neutrons) ,How they differentiated from each other ? each material consist of atoms and have it's own property and ability to react with another material .who create the laws of reaction between the different kind of materials ?How we can live in stable conditions without the reaction laws that keep the importance materials elements unchangeable ? Imagine that the natural solid , liquid and gas material changes under any condition continuously. how you can live on this earth ? Is it also by a chance that these reaction laws exist to form different kind of material around you ? or there are a great creator found it .​

​

5- your body cells tell you about their great creator , the smallest part of your body have a great system each cell do what your entire body do , it's take food ,get red of excess or waste materials ,grow up ,reproduce ,die ……..​

who can create just one cell like it ?Is it formed or created by a chance ?​

​

6- If the theory of spontaneous creation is right , we have lived in this earth since million of years and the history was written before 2000 of year ,why we don't see one animal developed to be another one without any intervention ,or any mankind developed to have new property different from his ancestors ? ​

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7 -I saw the big evidence about the great creator in my self , I feel that I have a great property as a human being , my feeling system , my thinking system is a great systems , It is impossible for me to think that these amazing systems were built or formed by a chance .still I have many information and evidences that prove my hypothesis and made it truth

Thanks

 

[Friend]

The words of Allah in his noble book "Al Qur'aan" which give to us a great evidences about the truth of the existence of Allah .​

If you designed and made a certain new complex machine alone, surely you are the one who could explain and interpret it's structure and mechanism ,how it is worked ,it's components ……….etc.​

So if Allah created us and created every thing in this universe or cosmos he could interprets and explains his creation methods . ​

many verses about the creation in the Qur'aan were transmitted by the angel Jebreel (PUH) to Mohameed (PUH) before 1400 years ago , the wonderful things nowadays is that the science coincided with the Qur'aanic verses about the creation issues which prove that Allah existence and he is alone create us . ​

After a study which lasted ten years, the famous French physician Maurice Bucaille addressed the French Academy of Medicine in 1976 and expressed the complete agreement of the Qur’an and established findings of modern science. He presented his study on the existence in the Qur’an of certain statements concerning physiology and reproduction. His reason for doing that was that "our knowledge of these disciplines is such, that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Qur’an could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times".



Decades later a noted embryologist Keith L. Moore and expert in his field, upon being presented with the statements made in the Qur’an regarding the stages of the formation of the embryo from the mixing of the male and female gametes up to the embryo’s full development remarked



"It has been a pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’an about Human Development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God or Allah because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later."



Professor Moore presented his findings to scientists at several conferences. Several Canadian periodicals published many of Moore’s statements and in addition he presented three television programmes in which he highlighted the compatibility of modern science with what has been revealed in the Qur’an 1400 years ago. Consequently, he was asked:



"Does this mean that you believe that the Qur’an is the word of God?" to which he replied "I find no difficulty in accepting this."


In fact Professor Moore was so amazed at the accuracy of the descriptions and the terminology used for the various stages of the development of the embryo that he modified his own textbook on the subject. He incorporated all the relevant Qur’anic passages and authentic statements of the Prophet Muhammad into his book, The Developing Human: Clinically oriented embryology with Islamic additions, which was published by WB Saunders in 1987 and was a standard university textbook in the United States. The book now contains passages of the Qur’an and the Hadeeth (verified statements of the Prophet Muhammad) for every stage of development and Professor Moore has also adopted the classification used in the above two sources.


Consider also the statement of Tejatet Tejasen (Professor at the Dept. of Anatomy, Faculty of Medicine, Chiang Mei University, Thailand) after his study on the Qur’an passages dealing with embryology:



"From my studies and what I have learnt at this conference I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Qur’an 1400 years ago must be true. That can be proved the scientific way".



Also the statement of E. Marshal Johnson (Professor and Chairman, Dept. of Anatomy, Daniel Bough Institute, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, USA) when he became aware of such statements in the Qur’an and investigated them:



"The Qur’an describes not only the development of external form but emphasizes also the internal stages - the stages inside the embryo of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science... If I was to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described... I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved..."



Upon being presented with hadeeths (verified statements of the Prophet Muhammad) concerning dominant and recessive characteristics Joe Leigh Simpson (Professor of Obstretics and Gynaecology, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago, Illinois, USA) said:



"... these Hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the ’writer’... It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Qur’an shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Qur’an having been derived from God".



Consider also the statement of T.V.N. Persaud (Professor and Head, Dept. of Anatomy, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Manitoba, Canada):



"Muhammad was a very ordinary man, he couldn’t read, didn’t know how to write, in fact he was an illiterate... were talking about 1400 years ago, you have some illiterate person making profound statements that are amazingly accurate, of a scientific nature... I personally can’t see how this could be mere chance, there are too many accuracies and like Dr. Moore I have no difficulty in my mind reconciling that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which lead him to these statements".



These are just a number of quotes from the "Scientific Community" regarding the nature and the origins of the Qur’an. In fact the Qur’an and Hadeeth do not just talk about embryology but hundreds of other phenomenon including the earth and sun being round, spinning around their own axis and following their own orbits, the origin and formation of the universe, the two types of seas between which is a barrier, the role of mountains in stabilizing the earth's crust, the formation of milk in cows, the cause of sexual diseases, the location of pain receptors within the body, the expansion of the universe, the precise nature of the water cycle, the change in atmospheric pressure at high altitudes, the gender of the bee which is responsible for producing honey (female), the stars consuming themselves via the combustion of their gases and this being the source of their light and many more.


Explaining all these statements by chance alone is something which has been resorted to, surprisingly by those deemed to be possessors of intellect and erudition. However, this is not tenable, as the following demonstration will show. When you make a guess regarding the true nature of something (in an accurate and precise manner that is) there are only two possibilities. Either you are right or wrong. If you make another guess then you only have one chance in four of being correct both times. If you make a third guess then you have one chance in eight of being correct all three times and so on. The chances of correctly describing, lets say, ten phenomena are 1 in 1024. Another point to bear in mind is that the greater the number of things you describe, the chance of being wrong is greater and thus the risk you are taking of being discredited gets bigger and bigger.


The Qur’an and the Sunnah (Authentic sayings of the Prophet (sas)) make statements on literally hundreds of phenomenon and at the same time openly calls the scientific community to verify them. If one from the scientific community was to make hundreds of new claims regarding his particular field and was then to call all his fellow specialists to prove him wrong he would know without doubt that he is standing on an undermined sand cliff which is ready to crumble with him. How then for the one who makes statements about the specialties of others?


One will be surprised to learn that such a scientific approach has been commanded in the Qur’an with the objective of ascertaining its truthfulness.

Do they not carefully consider (investigate) the Qur’an or are there locks upon their hearts.​

(Surah Muhammad 47:24)​

​

Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein (Surah An-Nisa' 4:82)



So religious (that is Islamic) beliefs are not based upon blind acceptance as many have generalized to all religions and thus falsely attributed to the Qur’an and Islam. This has been the experience of Europe in the past 3-400 years in which scientific advancement and its findings were seen as heretical, its proponents ridiculed and often exiled and tortured. Islam has never had that experience. It is true that people's academic capabilities differ and thus some will be unable to ascertain the truth of it and therefore may accept it blindly. But again they have the opportunity to ask the people of knowledge, those who are in a position to make such a judgement, like those quoted above. It is from the principles of wisdom and justice that when you don’t know you don’t make a judgement yourself but rather consult one who is in a position to do so. In fact, this is something Allah has also commanded:

​

So ask the People of Knowledge if you do not know (Surah Al-Anbiya 21:7)



And He has also said;

​

And those who have been given Knowledge know that that which has been revealed to you from your

Lord is the Truth (Surah Saba 34:6)​

This is a clear proof of the lack of the dependence upon dogma, superstition and personal experience and an indication of the obligation to research, ascertain and to verify in a scientific manner the credibility of religious (Islamic) belief.




Thanks to all

​

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Friend,


thank you for the post.

you skipped the most important and vital step of the Scientific Process!!! the one that, without, it isn't the Scientific Process.

the concept, which is well articulated by Karl Popper, is called Falsification. to be considered an actutal scientific theory, it must make definite predications that can falsify the theory.

if the theory isn't falsified, we adopt it until such time that new information causes us to review the theory. for instance, we overturned Newtons Theory of Gravity with Einsteins, however apples did not suspend themselves in mid air pending the outcome.

so... tell me, how could i falsify your theory? what specific predictions can you make that can be tested and falsified or not?

 

[Blue]

Many thanks, Friend, for your response in your Post to me.

I am still fundamentally puzzled as to why your citing of certain scientific, material and objective matters somehow proves what you posted.

I do not see the connection, in any logical way, follows.

Because there is a solar sytem, etc., doesn't actually prove anything other than that there is a solar sytem...

if you see what I mean, my 'Friend'.

 

[Friend]

Many thanks, Friend, for your response in your Post to me.

I am still fundamentally puzzled as to why your citing of certain scientific, material and objective matters somehow proves what you posted.
I do not see the connection, in any logical way, follows.
Because there is a solar sytem, etc., doesn't actually prove anything other than that there is a solar sytem...

if you see what I mean, my 'Friend'.

Al Salaamu Alyckum​

Thanks for your thanks​

Blue ,If there wasn't a creator behind these fixed ,organized and precise things , impossible we could live in this earth ,and every thing will randomly change.​

If you saw some blocks or stones arranged near each other ,could you say that those blocks were arranged by themselves or by chance?​

​

If you saw astonishing and complex machine were designed to accomplish certain tasks , could you say that it was developed by itself or by chance ?Or there is great hand behind it ???????????????????????????????​