Muslim Religion

Dear thipps,

What makes these restrictions law, since they are not explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an? If someone chooses not to obey them, are they considered non-Muslims? Where does it stop? If, for example, I drop something on the street, am I not allowed to bend down to pick it up, lest a man should walk by and misunderstand? What if I sing? Is that forbidden also? Who decides where the line is drawn, if the Qur'an is not enough to determine the rules?

Forgive me if these questions seem a bit harsh, my intention is not to be intrusive or cause any offense. I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind these limitations.
 
Salaam Thipps,

thank you for the post and the thoughtful reply.

thipps said:

Your questions and ideas are taken on thier own regardless of your gender. I was being proper as Islam requires me to be.


my experience with Muslims, in general, is that my gender often plays a determining role in how my ideas are viewed. this is simply my experience and does not reflect on Islam, as a whole. perhaps it was my bad luck to have lived in an Arab, Muslim country.

This should not restrict me atleast. I cant explain everything to you in detail if you make me restrict myself in such a manner. And yes, the hadith is authentic. i noticed that i forgot to write the name of the hadith book in the reference. This particular hadith is in Sahih Bukhari.
well... sure, i wouldn't expect that you would be able to explain everything in detail anyway. this restriction upon relying only upon Al Qur'an is mine and mine alone, though i understand that there is a movement within the Ummah that is taking this view as well... that is not my concern.

as i say, my source of Islam is Al Qur'a and Al Qur'an alone. as a Muslim, i realize that you have two other sources to form your views.

I knew many ppl would not understand the terms 'Azan' and 'Iqamaah'. Thats why i wrote thier meanings right next to the first mentioning of these words. Please read my original post. It is there.
ok...

What you are asking is Why a certain order has been prescribed in a particular situation.
absolutely.

I think its cause of the same reason that it would distract men. But I will get you the correct answer after i have asked a scholar. So, please consider what i have written as a probable answer only.
of course :)

By the way, if you feel that this is unfair to women, then why did you not ask about the fathers who are getting 3 times less respect as compared to the mothers?
? er... if i feel that something is unfair to women, why would i ask about something related to men? [/quote]
I urged you initially to keep the original example of the two students in mind. It provides the basis for understanding everything. Sometimes men will get more, sometimes women will get more. simple. The reason is, again, that they are NOT identical.
this is not something that you really need to emphasize to me... i'm well aware that sentient beings are of differing capacities. however, the issue most assurdly isn't simple.... well... at least from my point of view :)

When i was writing all these details, i knew there would be more and more questions and i also knew i would not be able to answer all of them. But that isnt a reason for me to not write.
that's the nature of them, to be sure :)

I do not know the answer to your question.
fair enough.

If there is a mosque near to where you live, please ask there.
i have, which is why i'm seeking other views. i didn't really care for the view that was put forth there.


Its for best results. Furthermore, just to elaborate on this, i would like to say:

Please look at the fingers on one of your hands and you will notice that all of them are different.
it certainly depends on ones' perspective. if i seek to find differences, i will be successful. if seek to find commonalities, i will equally be successful. it really just depends on what you are wanting to accomplish, division or unity. as for me... i'm more interested in unity than division.

In this particular case, both men stand next to eachother with the Imam(one who is leading the prayer), standing on the left and slightly ahead. say, half a foot would be fine. Two women praying together will do exactly the same.
Although i have described it, you will probably have to see it to get the best understanding.
thank you for the explanation :)
 
mirrorinthefog said:
What makes these restrictions law, since they are not explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an?
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
The word Shari`ah [Islamic Law] causes a lot of confusion in the minds of people. Most people think of it as something hard-and-fast and inflexible. This is far from true.
There are four widely recognized sources from which the Shariah took shape: (1) the Qur’an; (2) the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him); (3) ijmaa` (consensus of opinions among those well versed in Islamic jurisprudence); and (4) qiyas (logical or analytical deduction). Of these, the first two provide the foundation and the latter two are methods of forming acceptable religious opinions.
There is also another thing which needs to be clarified here and that is known as Ijtihad. I will talk about this a bit later.
Please note that Quran is the primary source and Hadith is the secondary source.The Holy Quran confirms what was revealed to earlier messengers of God and serves as the Criterion of right and wrong. It is considered the Word of God.
The Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad
saws.gif
refers to his sayings and actions, his approvals and disapprovals.He was the living breathing Quran. The Sunnah is collected in books separate from the Holy Quran and are known as Hadith books.While the Holy Quran is 100% Word of God revealed to the Prophet, not every Hadith is authentic. Early Muslim scholars have classified hadith into various categories ranging from different levels of authenticity to false hadith.

In short, ijtihad is a valid Islamic mechanism to make the society vibrant and progressive. It is quite relevant when we are not able to find a clear directive in the Qur’an and the Sunnah on a modern problem. For instance, test-tube babies, organ donation, and cloning are current issues in science on which one needs to know the Islamic ruling. The word, ‘ijtihad’ means effort, basically. But in Islamic studies, it signifies research, or specifically, the intellectual effort required to find out the Islamic ruling on a contemporary problem or situation. It is this provision of ‘ijtihad’ that makes Islam relevant for all times. On the basis of the fundamentals given, the scholars study the question before them and arrive at a ruling. The “doors of ijtihad” signify the opportunity for such research and reasoning, to arrive at conclusions. Certainly, ‘ijtihad’ clearly shows the practicality and viability of Islam in the contemporary world as well as in the future. As ijtihad itself was taught by the Prophet (peace be upon him), it is a provision in the Sunnah itself; and we must not lose sight of the Qur’an and the Sunnah when we apply ijtihad to modern issues. In other words, ijtihad must never be an attempt to overreach the fundamentals laid down in the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
Islam's universality means that Islam is all-encompassing and thus extends beyond the boundaries of climate and across all differences in race, language and culture. The open and comprehensive character of Islam is inherent in its Divine origin as being a gift from Allah designed for human nature.
Its all-inclusiveness as a macro-system of Divine purpose for all life makes Islam relevant to address all life’s problems and calamities. The legal systems, analytic framework or paradigm of this religion, known as the Shariah makes it possible for scholars, using Ijtihad, to apply it through Qiyas (analogical deduction) or Istihsan (Juristic Preference) and Maslaha Mursalah (Public Interest).
George Bernard Shaw understood this vitality of Islam and said:
"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and, in my opinion, far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." [George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM,Vol. 1, No. 8,1936]
If someone chooses not to obey them, are they considered non-Muslims?
It isnt that easy to declare someone a non-Muslim. Actually hadith point to the fact of being extremely careful of this matter. We have a free will, if we do not follow a certain teaching of Islam, then it is a sin. simple. One should repent and ask forgiveness. We should never think that God will not forgive our sin(s). God knows that we are weak. God is Oft-forgiving and Most-Merciful.
Where does it stop?
Islam is truely a way of life. It gives guidance in all spheres and in all situations. It does not start and stop at the mosque. I must point out here that Islamic Law ALWAYS takes into account the surrounding circumstances. Islam deals with the general situations as well as the special. The ruling changes according to the situation.I could give examples but the post is already quite long.
If, for example, I drop something on the street, am I not allowed to bend down to pick it up, lest a man should walk by and misunderstand?
Ofcourse you can pick the object up. it is yours. If, by chance, a misunderstanding does occur, you can explain. simple.
What if I sing? Is that forbidden also? Who decides where the line is drawn, if the Qur'an is not enough to determine the rules?
i think you do not want answers to these specific questions, you are asking these questions to convey the importance of your point. so, i will not answer them here [if you wish answers for these, then plz ask again or create a seperate forum for that]. As i said before, Islam is a way of life and gives guidance in all spheres.there is no line here. We do not feel completely lost when new problems come up cause we know Islam will give guidance in it.
Forgive me if these questions seem a bit harsh, my intention is not to be intrusive or cause any offense. I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind these limitations.
There is no need to oppologize. Your questions are very welcome and it is your right to ask.
One thing i would like to say is that Shariah aims to give human beings guidance at all times and in all situations for best results in this life. please do not view these laws/limitations/restrictions as negative. It is for our own good. God knows us better than we know ourselves.
P.S. I am not feeling well. May God forgive me if i made some mistake in my explanation.
 
Dear thipps,

Thank you for your answers thus far.

As for the questions you did not answer, I wouldn't have asked them if I didn't want answers to them, whatever the answers may be to me, and I thought my final paragraph underlined that quite clearly. Please don't twist my words. If you do not wish to answer them, I will respect your wishes. You have only to say so.

The restrictions you've explained here are something of a puzzle to me, I admit. I don't think personally that they are either needed or for some greater good. But then again, I am not required to obey them, so I have no reason to view them as negative. If someone wishes to obey these rules and believe they are for the best, then I can say nothing against that person. They are following what they believe is the right path.

One more question, if you don't mind:

Did Muhammad allow or ask for his actions to be recorded by others for future use, alongside the Qur'an? Did he explain why or how they were to be used?

As always, you don't have to answer if you find the question offensive. I'm simply curious, but I can find the answers elsewhere or start a seperate thread for the subject if it would make you feel more comfortable.

Peace.

PS: I hope you feel better soon.
 
=mirrorinthefog]Dear thipps,

Thank you for your answers thus far.

As for the questions you did not answer, I wouldn't have asked them if I didn't want answers to them, whatever the answers may be to me, and I thought my final paragraph underlined that quite clearly. Please don't twist my words. If you do not wish to answer them, I will respect your wishes. You have only to say so.

The restrictions you've explained here are something of a puzzle to me, I admit. I don't think personally that they are either needed or for some greater good. But then again, I am not required to obey them, so I have no reason to view them as negative. If someone wishes to obey these rules and believe they are for the best, then I can say nothing against that person. They are following what they believe is the right path.
AlSalaamu Alyckum all

mirrorinthefog, Islam give woman her respect, Islam want men to deal with the humanity of woman not with her looks .also the rules of Islam give people the chance to be far from problems that may be corrupted the society like doubt that destroyed the familial bonds, treason ,doing bad things (sins ),crimes ….

Did Muhammad allow or ask for his actions to be recorded by others for future use, alongside the Qur'an? Did he explain why or how they were to be used?


I think our prophet mohammed didn't ask for that , even his friends was warn about that because they afraid about the Qur'aan status ,Also Muslims may confuse or mix between Hadith(Mohammed (PUH) words or actions)and Qur'aan at that time .
but we all as Muslims know that our prophet Mohammed is our ideal person ,and we must learn from him how to act and react in this life ,also our God command us to follow our prophet in every thing he advised us to do because Allah protected him from the influence of Satan .Hadieth or Sunnah is the second source of our Islamic rules .

 
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
mirrorinthefog said:
Dear thipps,

Thank you for your answers thus far.
Most welcome.
As for the questions you did not answer, I wouldn't have asked them if I didn't want answers to them, whatever the answers may be to me, and I thought my final paragraph underlined that quite clearly. Please don't twist my words. If you do not wish to answer them, I will respect your wishes. You have only to say so.
Please re-read my post where i did not answer your questions, in which i explained the reason why i did not answer them. It should be clear that my intention was not to twist your words... it was simply my understanding of what you wrote. That is all. I further explained there that if you do wish answers for those questions, you could just ask them again. I specifically wrote that, just in case, i was wrong in understanding what you wrote. English not being my first language plays a part in this as well. But it should be kept in mind that it is not always possible to convey a thought or idea in the manner we wish for it to be understood by another person through pure text. Expressions and body language are a part of communication, so please simply put this down to a misunderstanding.
The restrictions you've explained here are something of a puzzle to me, I admit. I don't think personally that they are either needed or for some greater good. But then again, I am not required to obey them, so I have no reason to view them as negative. If someone wishes to obey these rules and believe they are for the best, then I can say nothing against that person. They are following what they believe is the right path.
It is not necessary that something should be done only if it achieves a good the size of a mountain. Islam is a complete system. Everything goes hand in hand with the other.
I'll try to answer the other questions, which you posted in your previous thread, next time.
PS: I hope you feel better soon.
I do. alhamdulillah.
 
Greetings, thipps

thipps said:
It is not necessary that something should be done only if it achieves a good the size of a mountain. Islam is a complete system. Everything goes hand in hand with the other.
I never said otherwise.

I'm glad you're feeling better.
 
mirrorinthefog said:
Greetings, thipps
I never said otherwise.

I'm glad you're feeling better.
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Ah, then this is misunderstanding #2 :D . Its what i understood from your use of the words 'greater good'. Guess you meant something else.
Ok, i checked your post, and the only question left was the following:
if I sing? Is that forbidden also?
The answer is: depends.
Depends on the Lyrics as well as if there are instruments being used or not.
In short, if the lyrics are not bad and you are just singing them without any instruments, like, for example, just walking down the street or driving your car, then by all means.
Wind and string instruments are not allowed to accompany these lyrics. basically, there is only one instrument which is allowed and that is what is called in arabic as 'duff'. It is a type of drum which has a leather sheet on one side only. thats the description i recall. i dont know what it is called in english. ill have find out.
Proof is from Quran as well as the hadith. Exegesis of 31:6 refers to this. More clear understanding is found in the authentic hadith. For this question, one can refer to, for example, Sahih Bukhari. Please see the following hadith.
The first part of the hadith [in Bold] is relevant to this discussion.
------------------------------------------
Narated By Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari :
That he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
[Vol 7, Book 69 (Drinks), Hadith # 494B]

Hope this answers your question.
 
Thank you, thipps, for elaborating.

In other words there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing besides drums, and the lyrics have to be agreeable? Is it just that particular drum that you mentioned that's allowed or can other drums be used?

In Turkey I know certain religious mystic sects (such as the Mevlevis) use musical instruments while singing hymns. Are they violating hadith? Or does this regulation have some exceptions (since the lyrics being used are of a religious nature, for example?)
So...wearing silk is also forbidden? :confused: I had no idea. I've seen women wearing silk scarves and I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Oh well...

Thanks again.

Mirrorinthefog
 
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
mirrorinthefog said:
Thank you, thipps, for elaborating.
Most welcome.
In other words there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing besides drums, and the lyrics have to be agreeable? Is it just that particular drum that you mentioned that's allowed or can other drums be used?
I specifically described the 'drum' so that it was not confused with the contemporary drum which has sheets on both sides. as far as i know,the duff is the only type of drum which is allowed and to my understanding, it can be used only on special occasions like, for example, the Eid festivals or a wedding [Dont know the complete list of occasions]. So, again, there can be no musical accompaniment when someone is singing and the lyrics have to be agreeable. Yes to that. The situation with the usage of the drum i have explained above.
In Turkey I know certain religious mystic sects (such as the Mevlevis) use musical instruments while singing hymns. Are they violating hadith? Or does this regulation have some exceptions (since the lyrics being used are of a religious nature, for example?)
I assume since you have asked, the instrument is besides the duff, so to my understanding, they are violating Islamic teachings. I dont recall there being any exceptions and plz recall the hadith i quoted. It prophecises that the use of musical instruments will be considered lawful. If anything, i see the fullfilment of this prophecy in what you have told me.
So...wearing silk is also forbidden? :confused: I had no idea. I've seen women wearing silk scarves and I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Oh well...
Ok, ill have to elaborate regarding silk. The men are not allowed to wear silk. I dont recall there being any prohibition on women in this regard. Women can very well wear silk. Ill recheck and if i find anything different, ill post it. I seem to remember some hadith i had read in this regard, that since men will refrain from wearing silk in this world, God will give them clothes of silk to wear in heaven as a reward for obeying this command of His.
Since you have mentioned silk, gold is often mentioned in this connection as well. Again, in Islam, men are not allowed to wear anything made of gold. It is forbidden for men but the women can wear all the gold they want. Hope the men dont start to say that Islam oppresses men:) now.
Vajradhara, hope you are reading this last part.
Hope this answers your questions.
 
Assalam-o-Alaikum, mirrorinthefog,
One of the reasons i like it when people ask questions about Islam is that it not only educates others, it gives me an opportunity to educate myself as well. Regarding beating the duff, following are some more details on its restriction of usage.
Firstly, the duff is also a musical instrument and is the only exception regarding usage and that too for certain occasions.
Abd-Allaah ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The duff is haraam[forbidden], stringed instruments are haraam, drums are haraam and flutes are haraam. [Narrated by al-Bayhaqi, 10/222]

But there are some ahaadeeth which indicate that it is permissible to beat the duff in some circumstances, which are:
Eid festival, weddings, and when one who has been away returns.

Evidence is present in hadith but i will not relate it here just to keep the length of the post short [If you ask me to, i will].
Apart from the 3 occasions cited above, the principle remains that it is haraam. Some scholars made the matter broader and said that it is permissible to beat the duff when a child is born and when he is circumcised; others take the matter further and say that it is permissible on all occasions that are a cause for expressing joy, such as the recovery of a sick person and the like.
But it is better to limit ourselves to what was narrated in the text.
Secondly, the correct view is that it is not permissible to beat the duff except for women. Ibn Hajar, Ibn Taymiyah and Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (May Allah have mercy on them) all said that. If you want, I can relate thier individual proofs and views but in the interest of keeping the post short, i have not done so.
Hope this clears things up a bit more.
 
Thank you again thipps.
It seems to me that these restrictions seem to favor Arabian culture quite a bit, am I wrong? (Someone who lives in Japan, for example, may not be able to obtain a duff to play or have the means to make one herself, whereas the instrument might be commonplace in certain parts of the Arabian Penninsula).
So then I take it dancing would also be restricted?
No need to quote the hadith, I don't want to trouble you. I'll take your word that they exist :)
 
mirrorinthefog said:
Thank you again thipps.
It seems to me that these restrictions seem to favor Arabian culture quite a bit, am I wrong? (Someone who lives in Japan, for example, may not be able to obtain a duff to play or have the means to make one herself, whereas the instrument might be commonplace in certain parts of the Arabian Penninsula).
So then I take it dancing would also be restricted?
No need to quote the hadith, I don't want to trouble you. I'll take your word that they exist :)
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
i am not an expert on culture, so i wont comment on that. still, i am asian, not an arab and in my own country, it is made and easily available. Japan being neither an arab nor a muslim country might create a problem for a muslim there who would want it. Firstly, i am not aware of thier import activities, so i cant say if they already have such a drum or not as all musical instruments are of interest to lovers of music; be they arabian or not. Furthermore, its the 21st century, importing it shouldnt be a great difficulty. it is not a large object, and can be possibly brought by anyone coming from outside the country attending the wedding ceremony. And, in general, if one has the means to afford a wedding, surely one has the means to make a duff. You need only one, not 50 or 100. Furthermore, it is not a pre-requisite for marriage to take place & is something optional. Still, considering its simple construction [see below], it shouldnt be hard to make even if it came to that. I found a slightly more detailed description of the duff, when compared to a regular drum. This is what the text said.
The only musical instrument that is permissible is the daff, and not others such as the tabl. The difference between them is that the tabl is covered on both sides whereas the daff is open on one side and covered on the other.
Regarding dancing, in general, one scholar had this to say:
Dancing is makrooh[discouraged, not recommended] in principle, but if it is done in the western manner or in imitation of the non-muslim women, then it becomes haraam[forbidden], because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” If it is done by men that is even worse, because that is men imitating women.
Regarding dancing of women[Its mostly done by females, thus more relevant]:
It is not permissible to do so in front of men and/or women, because of the fitnah[means temptation in this context] that may be caused by the movements of the body. It is well known that women may feel desire for one another, and even if that is not the case, there is no guarantee that one of them will not go back to her menfolk and describe to them what she has seen of the beauty of the dancer and her movement, so this may affect the men and may cause a great deal of mischief. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade such things.
Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman should look at another woman then describe her to her husband so that it is as if he can see her.” [Narrated in Sahih Bukhaari]
I dont think i need to get into the situation where a mixed gathering of men and women are dancing. It is obvious that it is also not allowed in Islam. The example of night clubs etc. and such things with their results and the fitnah that follows is even worse than what is described above.
Hope this answers your question.
 
Well, I don't agree with the justifications, but I'll take your word for it that these are the rules in Islam.
Thank you for elaborating.
 
Back
Top