What is with the enlightened?

wil

wil

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So often it seems... The enlightened are just dang disagreeable arrogant twats.

Or I guess I mean those that think they are enlightened, or claim to be.

As I stumble and plod thru life I contemplate...if that is enlightenment, I want nothing to do with it.

Same with some sanctimonious zealots. The line about not preaching from the street corner but praying in private comes to mind.

I am much more drawn to those who exude life and consciousness and compassion from their actions and being...than those who pontificate with or without a pulpit.

Although at times I appear to be guilty of the latter.

The mirror says that we can only dispise in others what we see and dispise in ourcellves.

I hate that f'n mirror.
 
So Wil likes to have Gods and enlightened on-click, or just on sunday, saying, now I am in the mood.

Would Wil call (reflecting now) calling his mother or father compassioned when will sometimes thought "my life, my consciousness" and just dang disagreeable arrogants argued with Wils thought, words and deeds?

There was a talk on sunday. Guess it matches the topic well. "So the question is, do you want to be an adult?"
 
What I find...well humorous more than anything else, is the assumption that we are somehow interested in those enlightened. "Well they guy on the interwebz said this and that so I guess that good then". I like Thomas, but it took a good long while before I could gage what sort of poster he was on what topics I could trust him on.
 
So you assamble here for what?
To help each other to stay where you are?
To find together reasons not to work?
To search for arguments why it is not good to search for the light?
To tell each other that you are fine and nothing to worry?
To waste precious time having gained a human live, not stupid and even meeting good teachings?

All in all, one does nit need to worry, since just what one nurishes will last and that what on does not find worthy will be gone soon. Just that if gone, it is not so that one would be able to order it in a bookshop or easily would be able to gain. Gone is gone. Ones good aspirations a faster gone as one might think. Still remember them or already hard to find?
 
I think my friends are trying to convey that interfaith dialogue requires two way communication.

I don't see you communicating, I see you preaching. BIG difference.
 
If juantoo would read his post again, would he say that this was what is required. Its a mystic phantasy that there is such as a two way communication and its a phantasy that there is not simply telling and listening.

Everything else is just entertaining defilements, like listen radio unaware. So its a kind of radio channel that one fills in the graps of boring that one meets here?
 
And what makes Juantoo assume that one does not? It would be foolish to do not. But the matter is more that most do not like to distinct whether one is a "student" or "teacher" but its beloved to draw a postmodern "we are all equal" above everything and so most have a hard to learn anything.
So are you to learn? Are you here to teach? Or just for entertaining and fill in the graps of boredom?

Atma welcomes critic for a person who seeks just hugging his defilements is in deed a fool. Just that it does not get misunderstood. "And I am not a teacher,", but what you would make out of that what is given.

right.jpg
 
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If you are not a teacher...willing to listen...then you are a preacher, bent on one way communication. You have no interest in teaching or persuading, you are interested in gathering mindless, unquestioning followers.

Who is the fool? The blind follower, or the questioning student?

As for me...I am both, teacher and student, always a student and sometimes a teacher. I can always learn, even from a fool I can learn what *not* to do.
 
We typically bide our time with prophets and enlightened here, they don't last long.

Me thinks we aren't worthy.

I am thankful for that.
 
wil said:
I am thankful for that
Click to expand...
That's aside of giving that what most look for and desire, is something that can be given all the time.
It's not question of worthy but willing to receive and usually it would even require such as giving and letting go at first place.
So if left alone is something Atma could provide a little pleasure, why not giving that.

Is exclusively my persons fault to stepped in based just on faith but actually not invited.

May all find the way to real peace for themselves with ease.
 
I want to believe your motives are sincere. I think for the most part they are. What is difficult is your presentation, your manner of presenting your beliefs.

I have been away for a long time, only recently returned after a long absence. So I cannot speak for all currently viewing. If things are still mostly as they were before, we were a group of friends who discussed among each other.

You will find me in agreement with you, much of that discussion was lukewarm fence sitting. There was a bit of finger pointing and ridicule at anyone outside of the clique, especially if anyone dared point to something untoward among the clique. For that I left the last time around.

For the most part, this place has always been about encouraging communication between different points of view, between different cultures and religions. The world has grown smaller and at the same time more sharply divided...this place is an exercise in trying to overcome the differences and foster communication. It is that reason I came here to begin with and stayed as long as I did.

There have been others to come here who do all the speaking and do not listen, as if only their story has any merit and others have no merit. Those are the ones Wil speaks of that do not last long here. They misunderstand the reason this place exists. We do not *need* saving, nobody here is looking for another path. We are all comfortable where we are at. We simply wish to find ways to bridge the divides that separate us in this world.
 
Has this been addressed?:


There is the the subjective POV

and there is the objective POV.


The objective world is beyond comprehension until we come in contact with it via "instruments of the senses".
**He was lucky man, he was!**

Although **Luck** is actually the term here for Karma-pay-back-of-the good-sort ---[subjectively born objective acts with favorable results].

We are born in the darkest ignorance.


*************************************

My esoteric reference:


Pranamsfrom the Songs of the Vaisnava Acaryas



SRI GURU PRANAMA


om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah


om-address; ajnana-of ignorance; timira-by the darkness; andhasya-of one who was blinded; jnana-anjana-by the ointment of spiritual knowledge; salakaya-by a medical instrument called a salaka, which is used to apply medical ointment to eyes afflicted with cataracts: caksuh-eyes; unmilitam-were opened; yena-by whom; tasmai-unto him; sri-gurave-unto my spiritual master; namah-obeisances.


I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance, with the torchlight of knowledge.


*************************************
Click to expand...


The rule of thumb for gaining knowledge begins thus, to ask the question:
Q. "How do you know who yor real father is"?
A. "Ask your mother".



Next rule of thumb is ---to check with three sources:

1. Guru - Mentor

2. Sadhu - expert colleagues of the Mentor

3. Sastra - the texts


The alarming note is that we are souls in a vast ocean, a vast of the material cosmos ---therefore we are tiny and lost and powerless, and worse, as spirit souls alive here in a conscious [biological] body we are conditioned by the laws of nature and again worse still, we are exhibit four defects:


The Four Defects of the Conditioned SoulIn the conditioned state, our knowledge is subjected to many deficiencies. The difference between a conditioned soul and a liberated soul is that the conditioned soul has four kinds of defects.The first defect is that he must commit mistakes.The second defect is to be illusioned.



Illusion means to accept something which is not: māyā. Māyā means “what is not.” Everyone is accepting the body as the self. If I ask you what you are, you will say, “I am Mr. John; I am a rich man; I am this; I am that.” All these are bodily identifications. But you are not this body. This is illusion.


The third defect is the cheating propensity.
Everyone has the propensity to cheat others. Although a person is fool number one, he poses himself as very intelligent. Although it is already pointed out that he is in illusion and makes mistakes, he will theorize: “I think this is this, this is this.” But he does not even know his own position. He writes books of philosophy, although he is defective. That is his disease. That is cheating. [think, Fake News]


The forth defect is our senses are imperfect. We are very proud of our eyes. Often, someone will challenge, “Can you show me God?” But do you have the eyes to see God? You will never see if you haven’t the eyes. If immediately the room becomes dark, you cannot even see your hands. So what power do you have to see? We cannot, therefore, expect knowledge (veda) with these imperfect senses. With all these deficiencies, in conditioned life we cannot give perfect knowledge to anyone. Nor are we ourselves perfect.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Godhead is the goal. The Soul gets a body to work at:

Eat, Sleep, mate and defend. The soul takes birth after birth repeatedly doing the same work. Some lifetimes the work is done with ease and in others it is burdensome. This is what the soul in the material cosmos does, from a common ant up to a demigod in the celestial planetary systems [far above the north star].


The common denominator for all souls repeatedly taking births is that each seeks the company of its contemporaries.


So the mystery behind this is to seek out God as He is, as a person, beyond time and the material cosmos.

BUT, just as a snail-mail letter ---it must be address to a HIGHLY SPECIFIC RECIEPIENT. Same goes for a travel ticket ---it is HIGHLY SPECIFIC. Yaw’ll ain’t going to Paris with that dry-cleaner’s pick-up ticket.

Godhead has His own eternal transcendent name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastimes ---and finger-prints too. How ya expect to get to A HIGHLY SPECIFIC DESTINATION ---without having HIGHLY SPECIFIC knowledge/Intent/Ability/Credentials/Connections?


That’s why Hare Krishna {Hindu’s “Vaishnava” school of yoga} broadcast KRISHNA, KRISHNA, and again KRISHNA.


“Maya” [illusory/temporal/fleeting/changing/material] has two inherent properties:
To provide causeless facilitation for the Souls to work at their actions as they freely choose [even though the soul becomes thus entangled & Conditioned to their conscious karmic works.

And the other property is to provide the Illusion that we are the body, and stymie one’s dreams and ambitions. Interior Elevations: Anger, Lust and Greed.


There are the three-fold Miseries that cannot be escaped from:

1. miseries inflicted by other living entities.

2. natural disturbances caused by the demigods.

3. miseries caused by one’s own body and mind.

So the rat race is all about raising above good & bad karma…but without a single-minded intent and “taste is in the pudding approach” we can’t find the absolute personality of Godhead. We must search him out … and the He will bestow as much grace as you truly ask for. We are on our own recognizance. We are in an ocean. We seek the repose of other persons. So why not seek out the Supreme Person? Only envy and colossal ignorant bad-luck can cause on to miss the target.


And time only exists here in the manifest material world. In the abode of Godhead time does not manifest.



 
Very nice reply!

bhaktajan said:
There is the the subjective POV

and there is the objective POV.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and the very nature of reality and our place within, we are *all* hamstrung by our subjective views, which can only glimpse at a tiny fraction of the objective reality...certainly not enough to claim we have knowledge of how the IS operates.


The objective world is beyond comprehension until we come in contact with it via "instruments of the senses".
Click to expand...

I would say the objective world (universe) is beyond comprehension because of the limitations of our senses. One cannot use a yardstick to measure voltage, or use radar to measure love. Even when we attempt to measure attributes of the IS, we often confuse the finger for the moon it is pointed at.
**He was lucky man, he was!**

Although **Luck** is actually the term here for Karma-pay-back-of-the good-sort ---[subjectively born objective acts with favorable results].

We are born in the darkest ignorance.
Click to expand...
I believe we are all born in ignorance, but only once.

The rule of thumb for gaining knowledge begins thus, to ask the question:
Q. "How do you know who yor real father is"?
A. "Ask your mother".
Click to expand...
The Earth is my mother, the Sky is my Father

Next rule of thumb is ---to check with three sources:
Click to expand...
1. Guru - Mentor

2. Sadhu - expert colleagues of the Mentor

3. Sastra - the texts
Click to expand...
The first and final source is my heart. If my heart warns me, I heed it's advice. I also consult my intellect, and where it conflicts with my heart, I usually allow the heart to prevail.

There are many competing religious texts, some still being written or added to even to this day. Humans have some inexplicable need to overly complicate their lives, seeking loopholes to rules. Yet when one whittles down every one of the major faiths to its bare essence, its core beliefs, there is little difference among them. Summed up in few words: Do not do to others what you do not wish done to yourself. Seek to return to the source from which you instinctively know you came.

The alarming note is that we are souls in a vast ocean, a vast of the material cosmos ---therefore we are tiny and lost and powerless, and worse, as spirit souls alive here in a conscious [biological] body we are conditioned by the laws of nature...
Click to expand...
Agreed, but to me there is nothing alarming about it.


Godhead is the goal.
Click to expand...
Agreed, a return to the Source from which all comes.

So the rat race is all about raising above good & bad karma…but without a single-minded intent and “taste is in the pudding approach” we can’t find the absolute personality of Godhead. We must search him out … and the He will bestow as much grace as you truly ask for. We are on our own recognizance. We are in an ocean. We seek the repose of other persons. So why not seek out the Supreme Person? Only envy and colossal ignorant bad-luck can cause on to miss the target.
Click to expand...
I suspect we are saying much the same thing with different words.

So why does this *require* multiple lives? I sense it does not, that the avenue for returning to the Source is freely available to any who will but seek with a proper heart.

Why does this require allowing other humans to exert influence over you, telling you to take your place in line as they see fit, restraining you from pursuing the IS on your own, demanding that you *must* go through "gurus" or other authority to reach the IS?

And time only exists here in the manifest material world. In the abode of Godhead time does not manifest.
Click to expand...
I am inclined to agree, but I cannot say with certainty.
 
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I will be back juantoo3.

CORRECTION NOTE:
My last post had used the words:
Interior Elevations ---this is a typo-error. It should read "ie:"

Lol it reads as if I was using the words "Interior Elevations" as some sort of psycho-spiritual lingo. hehehe
 
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