The Bible is pretty clear where homosexuality is concerned

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

For a Jewish perspective, just look up what you refer to as the Old Testament, Levitacus 18.

More simply put, it was about not "wasting" your "seed", mostly because it was a time when a myriad of tribes were vying for survival, and you needed as many strong warriors/defenders of your tribe/"property" against any and all attackers (both human and nonhuman.)

Am I making sense?

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Thomas]

It's too late now?

Lost contact.

You mean to the arguments for or against? I know he was well versed in Jewish Theology so I'm guessing he was a bit of a history buff as well.

Quite.

 

[wil]

I've read that Phyllis... The need for more men at the time influenced text.

 

[rosends]

The Jewish perspective is, at the same time, blunt and nuanced. Distinctions between thought and act, and male and female behaviors are considered. The place of the sin within the identity and community are likewise complex even though the literal written text seems obvious. And, of course, with the number of denominations of Judaism, there is a range of opinions. Even within Orthodoxy, you know what they say, 2 Jews, 3 opinions.

 

[wil]

As we climb the ladder from Reconstruction thru Renewal, Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox... seems you gotta get near the top to find anything close to the typical response of half a century ago... a lot has changed eh?

 

[rosends]

As we climb the ladder from Reconstruction thru Renewal, Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox... seems you gotta get near the top to find anything close to the typical response of half a century ago... a lot has changed eh?

Yes, but that's often because the mores of the larger society have shifted so denominations which work themselves to align with the community standards change apace.

 

[wil]

Were not the scriptures an attempt to change the mores of society a few thousand years ago?

Leviticus contains many rules/laws/commandments...

Do you (any of you) support them all equally and believe them to be applicable today?

https://chronicle.fanack.com/israel/history-past-to-present/being-gay-in-israel/

 

[rosends]

Not all are applicable today and the ones that are, aren't in the same way as they were back then. Jewish law is complicated.

 

[wil]

Not all are applicable today and the ones that are, aren't in the same way as they were back then. Jewish law is complicated.

Complicated? Doesn't it evolve like all laws? Continually argued amongst the learned of the day utilizing intent and social implications of the writers and learned of yesterday?

 

[rosends]

Complicated? Doesn't it evolve like all laws? Continually argued amongst the learned of the day utilizing intent and social implications of the writers and learned of yesterday?

It is complicated because it isn't just about the laws but about the application of the laws. As to its evolving, it doesn't evolve at the same rate as social codes and, because the belief is that the underlying authorship is divine, some of the implications cannot be reconsidered as years go by.

 

[wil]

belief is that the underlying authorship is divine, some of the implications cannot be reconsidered as years go by.

Not all are applicable today and the ones that are, aren't in the same way as they were back then.

Who among us gets to determine these things?

 

[rosends]

Who among us gets to determine these things?

Within Judaism, it has already been determined.

 

[wil]

Within Judaism, it has already been determined.

There is a human authority? Or committee of rabbis? Or G!d?

Or do you mean within each of the five denominations, and variance among faithful of.each?

 

[rosends]

There is a human authority? Or committee of rabbis? Or G!d?

Or do you mean within each of the five denominations, and variance among faithful of.each?

I mean that the laws and the codification have been established through Orthodox Judaism as the divine authority a long time ago. What we have since then is application and understanding of how and when to use the law.

 

[wil]

So does the orthodoxy believe that homosexuality is a sin punishable by death?

(You know ...beyond the fact that life... is punishable by death)

As I see Israel accepts gay marriages of other countries despite not allowing them in their own.

 

[rosends]

Israel is not a pure theocracy so its civil law allows for things that a pure theocracy would not. Orthodoxy does not approve of homosexual relations (though not homosexuality per se) but sees nothing as punishable by death (at least by a court system) today.

 

[wil]

So sin, but not a mortal one...despite what scripture says?

Or is there another interp of scripture ?

 

[rosends]

Something's being listed textually as a sin deserving a death penalty does not mean that it is a sin for which we can necessarily apply a death penalty, even were this a time and place where there was a process by which we could apply a death penalty.

 

[wil]

Something's being listed textually as a sin deserving a death penalty does not mean that it is a sin for which we can necessarily apply a death penalty, even were this a time and place where there was a process by which we could apply a death penalty.

So in Judaism there is no mortal sin? This is the Orthodox view?

 

[rosends]

I'm not sure then what you mean by "mortal sin." As I stated, there are sins that are listed textually as deserving a death penalty. I would think that that makes them "mortal sins." However this does not mean that we can carry out that particular punishment.