PROGRESSIVE REVELATION

[Unity]

Hello beautiful !

What follows was posted under a thread (interfaith quotes) in another forum but its conclusion exclusively moved here without my knowledge under 'Support' as the name of the thread now changed by me to 'Progressive Revelation', considering the impossibility to delete it and as it could serve a good purpose anyway. Let's see if the following quotes, from the main religious sources, will prove the unicity of God and the spiritual unity of His Manifestations, thus helping to dissolve the animosity generated by their ignorance, for when they are put together, the perspective is entirely changed.

Here it goes.


THE CONCEPT OF PROGRESSIVE REVELATION EXPLAINED BY THE HOLY WRITINGS OF THE WORLD RELIGIONS


« Although the divine teachings are truth and reality, yet with the passage of time thick clouds envelop and obscure them. These clouds are imitations and superstitions; they are not the fundamentals. Then the Sun of Truth, the Word of God, arises again, shines forth once more in the glory of its power and disperses the enveloping darkness. »

- Abdu'l-Baha

« The process of the rise and setting of the Sun of Truth will thus indefinitely continue--a process that hath had no beginning and will have no end. »

« Well is it with him who in every Dispensation recognizeth the Purpose of God for that Dispensation, and is not deprived therefrom by turning his gaze towards the things of the past. »

- The Bab

THE GOAL OF THE 'REINCARNATION' (OF THE DIVINE SPIRIT) WELL EXPRESSED HERE BY KRISHNA

« I come, and go, and come. When Righteousness declines, O Bharata! When Wickedness is strong, I rise, from age to age, and take visible shape, and move a man with men, succouring the good, thrusting the evil back, and setting Virtue on her seat again. »

- Bhagavad-Gita

« Whenever there is decay of righteousness... and there is exaltation of unrighteousness, then I Myself come forth... for the destruction of evil-doers, for the sake of firmly establishing righteousness, I am born from age to age. »

- Krishna


MUMAMMAD ANNOUNCING THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF THE ONE TRUE GOD

« Unto every nation hath an Apostle been sent »

- Muhammad

« Say ye: "We believe in God, and that which hath been sent down to us, and that which hath been sent down to Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes: and that which hath been given to Moses and to Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord. No difference do we make between any of them: and to God are we resigned. " »

- Muhammad

« Certainly they disbelieve who say : "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ : "O Children of Israel ! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, - Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. »

- Muhammad


CHRIST ANNOUNCED AS THE FORETOLD NEW MOSES

« This is the same Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.' »

- Acts 737


THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF A UNIVERSAL MANIFESTATION, BAHA'U'LLAH, BY THE PROPHETS OF OLD AND BAHA'U'LLAH HIMSELF

« When a thousand two hundred and some years have passed from the inception of the religion of the Arabian and the overthrow of the kingdom of Iran and the degradation of the followers of My religion, a descendant of the Iranian kings will be raised up as a Prophet. »

- Zoroaster

« As regards Vahram-i Varjavand (God of Victory or Sháh Bahrám), it is manifest that he will come forth with full radiance, and having settled the adjudged and true position of Religion, he will restore these Iranian villages which I, Ahura Mazdá, created. Avarice, indigence, revenge, anger, lust, envy, and wickedness will wane from the world. The wolf age will pass away and the lamb age will enter. »

- Zoroaster

« I am not the first Buddha, nor shall I be the last. In due time, another BUDDHA shall arise in the world, a holy one... He will reveals to you the same eternal truths wich I have taught you... »

- Buddha

« He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. »

- Revelation

« But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. »

- John

« The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God. »

- Isaïah

« Say: By the righteousness of the Almighty! The measure of the favors of God hath been filled up, His Word hath been perfected, the light of His countenance hath been revealed, His sovereignty hath encompassed the whole of creation, the glory of His Revelation hath been made manifest, and His bounties have rained upon all mankind. »

- Baha'u'llah

Your comments ? Is there a way to present it that it be better understood ?

Blessing !


Unity

 

[arthra]

Well done "unity" and welcome to the Forum!

 

[Thomas]

Hi Unity —

Let's see if the following quotes, from the main religious sources, will prove the unicity of God and the spiritual unity of His Manifestations, thus helping to dissolve the animosity generated by their ignorance, for when they are put together, the perspective is entirely changed.

OK.

Are you not assuming all religions believe in God, and that the God in which they believe, they define the same way as you. I'm not sure either is the case.

THE CONCEPT OF PROGRESSIVE REVELATION EXPLAINED BY THE HOLY WRITINGS OF THE WORLD RELIGIONS

This is a Baha'i concept. It's no part of the Traditions to which you make appeal. No Tradition states itself incomplete, or that it need be fulfilled or explained by appeal to another tradition. I'll leave representatives of the other traditions to defend their doctrines where appropriate.

« This is the same Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.' »
But this is within a given tradition. Theoretically, has the Jews accepted Christ as the text suggests, then there would be no 'Christianity' but a continuation of the Messianic message of Judaism.

« He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. »
Here we're talking about the Spirit of God, the Third Person of the Trinity.

« But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. »
Again, the Holy Spirit.

Your comments ? Is there a way to present it that it be better understood ?

I'm sorry, but what you present is interpreted through your lens, rather than within the context of its setting in traditional scriptures.
From the standpoint of the general philosophical principles concerning religions, particularly their mode of revelation, there are certain princples which apply across the board.

The first is that a 'revelation' is from God, or the Absolute if you like, and that the revelation itself is a disclosure of and by the Absolute, and that God/Absolute is accessible to anyone by acceptance of that revelation. The revelation points to the end, and the means to attain that end ... nothing more is required. He who receives the Word receives it all.

For example, for the Jews, it is the Law, the Word of God. In Christianity, it is the person of Jesus Himself, He is the Word made flesh. For Islam, again it is the Word, delivered to the Prophet by an Angel. In each case the message is complete and entire, containing all that's necessary to attain whatever end the revelation points to.

Language is a human construct, and is therefore relative and contingent, so the understanding of texts changes over time, but that's not to say that a new understanding contradictions what was said before — not concerning the fundamental or principle dogmas or truths of that tradition. In Christian theology we call it 'unpacking', but nowhere in any of the commentaries by the saints and sages of any tradition do those authorities call on other and 'outside' traditions to validate or complete their own teachings.

That God is one is, for theist traditions, a given. From their viewpoint, all other gods are either errors of perception or human knowledge of God is partial, that which is accessible to the mind, uninformed by revelation. Thus St Paul said to the Athenians: "For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you" (Acts Of Apostles 17:23).
As one who is inclined to the sophia perennis, the Way of the Heart or traditional wisdom, I endorse the idea of the unity of traditions, with the proviso that one needs to find a tradition that speaks to oneself and give it your all. You cannot spread yourself across traditions, picking and choosing from hither and yon.

So the meaure of any tradition is what it reveals of itself, not what it has to say about other traditions.

My understanding of the Baha'i faith is limited, but I am not here to contend with what you believe or what the Baha'i faith says, simply that in my limited understanding, I have not heard anything that substantially adds or benefits that which I have received through my own tradition.

 

[arthra]

My understanding of the Baha'i faith is limited, but I am not here to contend with what you believe or what the Baha'i faith says, simply that in my limited understanding, I have not heard anything that substantially adds or benefits that which I have received through my own tradition.

Thanks for your post! and you are welcome to hold to your own tradition!
May God bless you this Easter season.

 

[Ahanu]

« But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. »
Again, the Holy Spirit.

Hello Thomas!

"And none knows its interpretation, save only God" (Quran 3.7).

"Nay, they deny what their knowledge does not encompass, though its interpretation has not yet come to them" (Quran 10.39).

"Then it is Ours to explain it" (Quran 75.16).​

Abdu'l-Baha lists his reasons for not accepting the traditional Christian view on this point. Please keep in mind the quote below is not an official translation. Here it is:

"Firstly. He sayeth: He shall not come unless I go away. This utterance indicates that He, the Spirit, the Comforter was not there at the time of Christ[11] and that He would come afterwards. But the Holy Spirit was inseparably and always co-existing with Christ.[12] So there would otherwise be no meaning to the saying: He shall not come unless I go away.

Secondly. He said: I have many things to explain to you but you do not posses the capacity to bear them; but that Sanctified Spirit of Truth will expound these things and lead you into all truth.

Now consider further: In accord with Christian Teaching, the Holy Spirit is the Third Hypostasis[13] and the Spirit Jesus Christ is the Second Hypostasis.[14],[15],[16] Could it be the case that after all the training imparted by the two Hypostases[17] the veils of ignorance and lack of knowledge were not torn asunder and the disciples were not confirmed with the full guidance of truth?[18] Were they then after the ascension of that Supreme Luminary receiving the hidden unseen mysteries and the concealed and sealed Lordly wisdoms from the Third Hypostasis? Did they then only become able to hear these truths? Rather it is obvious[19] that if under the shade of guidance of that Essence of Essences and the Spirit of Spirits and with all the confirmations of the Holy spirit if souls be not educated and trained, and, if the soul’s dark veils were still not burned away, then the breaths of the Holy spirit [alone] would have no effect for a hundred thousand years. And herein is manifest and recognizable truth.

Thus it has become clear and proven from those blessed Johannine verses that after the Beauty of Jesus another Honoured Soul and Great Beauty will appear Whose training will be even greater than the education imparted by Christ, the Spirit of God.

Thirdly He said: That Comforter will not speak from Himself. That means He shall be aided by the hosts of divine Revelation. He shall declare and expound all that reaches His Blessed Hearing from the Kingdom of Glory.

Consider again, how clear it is. This means that that Comforting Spirit is a Person[20] Who wilt be inspired with heavenly Inspirations and be the Repository of Lordly Revelations. Further, the Holy Spirit doth not have ears with which to hear.[21]"

 

[Unity]

In order to transcend the illusory divisions of our fragmented views, " We must recognize the sun, no matter from what dawning point it may shine forth, be it Mosaic, Abrahamic or any personal point of orientation whatever, for we are lovers of sunlight and not of orientation. We are lovers of illumination and not of lamps and candles. We are seekers for water, no matter from what rock it may gush forth. We are in need of fruit in whatsoever orchard it may be ripened. We long for rain; it matters not which cloud pours it down. We must not be fettered. If we renounce these fetters, we shall agree, for all are seekers of reality. The counterfeit or imitation of true religion has adulterated human belief, and the foundations have been lost sight of. The variance of these imitations has produced enmity and strife, war and bloodshed. Now the glorious and brilliant twentieth century has dawned, and the divine bounty is radiating universally. The Sun of Truth is shining forth in intense enkindlement. This is, verily, the century when these imitations must be forsaken, superstitions abandoned and God alone worshiped. We must look at the reality of the Prophets and Their teachings in order that we may agree. " - Abdu'l-Baha


So be it !

 

[Thomas]

Hi Ahanu —

Abdu'l-Baha lists his reasons for not accepting the traditional Christian view on this point...

Each, as they say, to his own.

 

[wil]

Hi Ahanu —


Each, as they say, to his own.

It is the Baha'i board..

I've always thought Krishna was enough for Hindus, Moses enough for Jews, Jesus enough for Christians, Mohamed enough for Muslims, etc.

That each of us, in our way needed only so many words, so many insights in order to connect our eachness to the allness...

It is when what we have learned is no longer enough, we go searching again for something more, to help us understand.

Like the Atheist who only believes in one less G!d than we....just how many testaments you need...is upto you.

Some of us need to take algebra a second time before we get it...others grock it before it is explained.

 

[Thomas]

It is the Baha'i board..

That was my point.

My initial post was to explain that PR is not a given in other traditions, nor do others necessarily accept heterodox interpretations of their own scriptures, so the suggested implication of texts cited in Unity's post will be most probably not be accepted outside of Baha'i circles.

If anyone wants to discuss the idea of progressive revelation, I'm open to it, but not on the Baha'i board without a Baha'i invitation.

 

[Ahanu]

If anyone wants to discuss the idea of progressive revelation, I'm open to it, but not on the Baha'i board without a Baha'i invitation.

Sure. Maybe in the Belief and Spirituality board. Are you here to disprove the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation, have a mutual dialogue, or are you looking for something else? I wrote more in response to your above posts, but I decided not to post it . . . yet. Don't want to waste my time if you are throwing us a bit of hocus-pocus.

 

[Thomas]

Are you here to disprove the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation, have a mutual dialogue, or are you looking for something else?

Nope, I was simply responding to Unity's request for comments ...