The Trees

Cino

Cino

Big Love! (Atheist mystic)
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Judaism and Christianity have the two trees of knowledge of good & evil, and of life.

I'd like to learn more about the significance of trees in Islam. I have come across the following:

The Sidr Tree
The Tuba Tree
The Zaqqum

Maybe there are even more of these?

What are the stories, legends, and theological significance?
 
So here are some points about these trees which I found in Wikipedia, but I would be thrilled for someone more knowledgeable to fill in / correct this:

The Sidr Tree or Lote Tree

... is a large tree that marks the end of the seventh heaven, the furthest reach of creation. During his journey to the heavens, Muhammad visited the tree and received the commandments regarding daily prayers there.

I've also seen references to the Lote Tree tree in Baha'i teachings.

The Tuba Tree

... is a tree that grows in the garden of paradise. It bears edible fruit, as reported by Muhammad. The descriptions are reminiscent of biblical and Persian descriptions of the trees in the garden of paradise.

The Zaqqum

... is a tree that grows in the fires of hell, its fruit is the food of the inhabitants of hell, and it causes burning bowel pains when eaten. The fruit is shaped like demonic faces.

---

I particularly enjoy the symbolism and imagery of a tree growing right at the edge of the universe :)

Questions:
  • are these trees used in teaching?
  • apart from the Miraj, are there other tales about these trees? Folklore maybe? For instance, in European fairy tales, there is a recurring theme of heroes retrieving fruit from trees similar to the biblical trees of paradise, for example. The motif of these life-giving apples also has pre-christian roots, in norse mythology for example.
 
There is also in Quran the Tree of Immortality or Eternity.

There is no mention here of a Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil.

فَوَسۡوَسَ اِلَيۡهِ الشَّيۡطٰنُ قَالَ يٰۤاٰدَمُ هَلۡ اَدُلُّكَ عَلٰى شَجَرَةِ الۡخُلۡدِ
وَمُلۡكٍ لَّا يَبۡلٰى‏

“But Shaytan seduced him, saying: ‘Adam! Shall I direct you to a Tree of Immortality and a kingdom that never decays?’”

(Surah 20:120)
 
Arif Ghamiq said:
There is also in Quran the Tree of Immortality or Eternity.

There is no mention here of a Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil.

فَوَسۡوَسَ اِلَيۡهِ الشَّيۡطٰنُ قَالَ يٰۤاٰدَمُ هَلۡ اَدُلُّكَ عَلٰى شَجَرَةِ الۡخُلۡدِ
وَمُلۡكٍ لَّا يَبۡلٰى‏

“But Shaytan seduced him, saying: ‘Adam! Shall I direct you to a Tree of Immortality and a kingdom that never decays?’”

(Surah 20:120)
Click to expand...

Thanks! It is interesting that in this Surah, Adam is forgiven after being repentant, unlike the Christian doctrine of "original sin".

Similarly, one of my Jewish friends once explained to me that the sin of Adam and Eve was their passing on the blame rather than disobedience: Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent. Not sure this is mainstream Jewish thought, but it came to my mind so I thought I'd share it.
 
There's also the tree neither of the East nor West, in the Verse of Light (chapter 24 verse 35 of Qur'an):

024.035 "Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things."

That verse is one of the most loved by Muslims by the way, especially those with a Sufi leaning. I am unsure what is meant by neither East nor West (in fact the entire verse is cryptic). Maybe it is a tree not of this world, something beyond the physical plane where there are spatial dimensions? Maybe somebody here knows an exegesis of it ... ?
 
Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things

Yes :D
This refers to allegorical light .. spiritual light.
SubhanAllah .. Glory be to God over that which mankind ascribe as partners to Him !
 
muhammad_isa said:
Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will.

Yes :D
This refers to allegorical light .. spiritual light.
SubhanAllah .. Glory be to God over that which mankind ascribe as partners to Him !
Click to expand...

Is it the soul?
If so, whose soul, that we are guided to it?
And why is the oil from an olive tree?
What is meant by a tree of neither east nor west?
 
Neither East nor West, in the center, perhaps? The point of view of the heart?

Olive oil was used in lamps in antiquity. It is gained by an arduous process of first gathering olives, then pressing them, then refining the oil. Something very refined and purified.

What are your thoughts on the imagery of the niche?
 
Cino said:
Neither East nor West, in the center, perhaps? The point of view of the heart?

Olive oil was used in lamps in antiquity. It is gained by an arduous process of first gathering olives, then pressing them, then refining the oil. Something very refined and purified.

What are your thoughts on the imagery of the niche?
Click to expand...


Thank you that was good.


To me, the glass is like a diffraction device, which slows the light down, from infinite frequency (God's soul itself?) to finite frequencies (eventually visible light).
The niche = the entry point into the universe of that light, a space cleared out. Maybe a conduit somewhere between dimensions (the dimension of pure energy and the physical dimension). A little antechamber. So, the light is in a glass lamp, which is in the little antechamber.
 
muhammad_isa said:
How's about rūḥ al-qudus .. the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...

I believe it may be so. The Logos.
Alternatively I sometimes wonder if it is The Prophet's soul. The way it is described is very lovingly, and l believe the Prophet's soul would therefore fit the description.
However my logical side thinks it's the Holy Ghost (the Logos)


@Cino l really liked what you said about neither east nor west meaning the heart. I posed that it could mean a cosmic location where the world of energy and matter meet and let there be light.

Maybe both are true. We are a microcosm of the macrocosm. Our souls bud off from the soul of God.
 
Last edited:
SufiPhilosophy said:
@Cino l really liked what you said about neither east nor west meaning the heart. I posed that it could mean a cosmic location where the world of energy and matter meet and let there be light.
Click to expand...

Glad you liked it! This discussion of the Light Verse reminded me of an enigmatic Gospel passage, Mattew 6:22

The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
Click to expand...

... which dovetails nicely with the "niche" imagery, inner vs outer reality, micro/macrocosm...

The experience of light is reported across mystical traditions.
 
I guess the heart is the niche.
When i stare at myself in the mirror l eventually see a blue spark come out of both eyes.
 
SufiPhilosophy said:
I am unsure what is meant by neither East nor West (in fact the entire verse is cryptic). Maybe it is a tree not of this world, something beyond the physical plane where there are spatial dimensions? Maybe somebody here knows an exegesis of it ... ?
Click to expand...
I don't have reference to a Moslem exegesis, but I would offer this ...

By neither East nor west – and nor, by extension, north or south – might suggest the centre, in line with the vertical axis, as it were? The tree then might be synonymous with the tree in the midst of Paradise (Genesis 2:9)? The waters flow in the four directions from this tree ... I'm sure someone would have said as such?
 
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