How I use the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary

[wil]

It was why so complicated? Why not just read the book?

I do read the book, I like to read parallel bibles when I read the book, so I can compare half a dozen different versions,.interpretations of the word seeing what different groups of scholars thought of the words. Some seem more poetic, some trying to be more in tune with the underlying intent, some more readable using the vernacular of the time.

I like to read concordances and contemplation of others, I like to think of the authors, and historical time period of the writings and the events discussed. I like to consider why someone thought this was important for posterity and spiritual growth and what exactly i am supposed to get out of it. What does it say literally, historically, how does it play in with the overall story. Is there a metaphor or parable?

Sometimes that is enough, but if it particularly confusing G!d ordering smiting and all...the MBD preaents some interesting contemplation.

I read the scripture again, looking up the peoples names, the place names and the identifiers of common words and come up with some 'new thought' as assisted by Fillmores revelations.

 

[wil]

For those that want to play along...

Vengeance on Midian

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people. 3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.4Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war. 5So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand. 7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 8And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.9And the children of Israel took allthe women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. 10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. 12And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan nearJericho.

13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. 14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. 15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. 19And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify bothyourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 20And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

 

[Ahanu]

For those that want to play along...

So you're asking everybody about their opinion of these verses? I am not one hundred percent sure . . .

 

[Ahanu]

I read the scripture again, looking up the peoples names, the place names and the identifiers of common words and come up with some 'new thought' as assisted by Fillmores revelations.

Who is Fillmore?

 

[wil]

So you're asking everybody about their opinion of these verses? I am not one hundred percent sure . . .

Sure! Direct interp or your interp using mbd

Who is Fillmore?

Charles.Filmore, founder of Unity and author of the metaphysical bible dictionary

 

[RJM]

Numbers 31:1-20
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31&version=KJV
In the commentary about the Book Of Numbers, my Catholic Bible includes this:

“Like Leviticus, most of the book was written in the priestly circles of Jerusalem, after the Israelites returned from the Exile, namely around 700 years after Moses. The purpose of these priests was to justify the religious and social structure that they intended to establish in Israel in order to make of Israel the people consecrated to the worship of the one God.

“All the initiatives attributed to Moses are meant for the Jews, back from the Exile. Thus, the authors depicted the setting in which they lived on the basis of the people before them: the hundred or so families of the Exodus became a people of six hundred thousand men, plus their wives, children and their cattle. The small wooden ark, that was carried on a donkey, became the centre of a portable Sanctuary, almost as impressive as the Jerusalem temple, and the priests with their rubrics always occupy centre stage.

“When the account was written Israel was just a quiet province within the Persian Empire: all the more reason to flatter their imagination and to build up Moses' companions into a formidable, aggressive and conquering army at the service of the one God.

“As with Leviticus we have to say the following: those who accept this way of rewriting history will find the word of the Holy God at every instant; the call to holiness is not just a personal matter but it conditions the entire life of the people of God.”

So once we accept that the account of what happened 700 years ago is exaggerated to the point of fiction by priests with a mission to restore the racial purity and holiness of the Nation of Israel after 70 years of exile in Babylon, with all that Babylon implies -- concerning chapter 31 we have: The author of the story only wanted to insist how dangerous it was for the Israelites to marry women of pagan nations.

See also Joshua 6
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+6:16-26&version=KJV

 

[Ahanu]

When the issue is about war, Maimonides seems to approach the text like a Chinese general or how any other strategist of war would approach The Art of War. He said:

"When a siege is placed around a city to conquer it, it should not be surrounded on all four sides, only on three. A place should be left for the inhabitants to flee and for all those who desire, to escape with their lives, as it is written Numbers 31:7: 'And they besieged Midian as God commanded Moses.' According to tradition, He commanded them to array the siege as described."​

At the moment I am just taking notes from what Jewish thinkers had to say about Midian . . .

 

[Thomas]

So once we accept that the account of what happened 700 years ago is exaggerated to the point of fiction by priests with a mission to restore the racial purity and holiness of the Nation of Israel after 70 years of exile in Babylon, with all that Babylon implies -- concerning chapter 31 we have: The author of the story only wanted to insist how dangerous it was for the Israelites to marry women of pagan nations.

Yep.

I think scholars have noted that the Biblical stories of Israel's enemies being wiped out are grossly exaggerated. Truth, as they say, is always the first casualty of war, especially when the PR people get hold of it.

 

[wil]

Exaggeration in the bible? Now we are getting someplace!

So if everyone knew the stories are hyperbole, why did those that selected the canon keep them in? (Jews and Christians) Why didn't editors modify them?

Why leave in stories of killing women and children and saving virgins for yourself if they were not true? (I say it is to seek the underlying story, what say you?)

Did the waters really part? Did water turn to wine? Were the dead raised?

 

[RJM]

So if everyone knew the stories are hyperbole, why did those that selected the canon keep them in? (Jews and Christians) Why didn't editors modify them?

Which editors have the right to 'modify' scripture? Luther changed (added) one word in one Pauline letter and there's still no end to the upset.

Those Old Testament documents are still VERY old. Science and scholarship can investigate them, considering the history and culture at the time, but who do you want to edit the nasty bits out of the Old Testament?

 

[wil]

Much has been edited version to version, then we have apocrypha which was chosen to be removed when deemed unworthy.

When science is found lacking wrong or hyperbole it gets replaced.in the books.

But again,.my question is, of what value is the verse I posted to you today? How do you use it in your daily life? If you read the bible annually or every few years what do you think when you read.this scripture?

 

[RJM]

Ok, but deciding which books to include in the canon is not the same as rewriting the books. That commentary on Numbers 31 came from a Catholic Bible, which includes the common apocrypha.

No-ones trying to hide anything. When new evidence comes up, it's not rejected, except by die-hard literalists.

But again,.my question is, of what value is the verse I posted to you today? How do you use it in your daily life? If you read the bible annually or every few years what do you think when you read.this scripture?

Honest I had not really thought about it much until you posted the passage earlier.

But you're asking, so: today I interpret it as Israel's one God insisting that his people stay faithful and prevent it being diluted away by absorbing other gods into their society.

I interpret the brutality as a nasty feature of the time. As brutal historical violence. At the time it was written the Jews had not long ago watched Babylonians dashing their children against the stones.

And since the commentary is available alongside the text: imo it especially applies to Israel's return to Jerusalem and the need to recreate their society after their Babylonian exile?

 

[Thomas]

Exaggeration in the bible? Now we are getting someplace!

Er, not necessarily where you're headed, I'd hazard a guess! LOL

So if everyone knew the stories are hyperbole, why did those that selected the canon keep them in? (Jews and Christians) Why didn't editors modify them?

The same reason historians shouldn't edit and rewrite history each generation to bring it in line with contemporary cultural values?

I think it's a particular wisdom to leave well alone ... Scripture can only be properly understood and transmitted through traditional commentary, it was written with that in mind. It's a fundamentalist attitude that tells itself it understands everything without insight or instruction, and it's a promethean ego that assumes it's understanding surpasses everything that's gone before ...

(I say it is to seek the underlying story, what say you?)

I say you have to understand the genre and the context first, otherwise one runs the risk of reading hidden meanings into everything...

Did the waters really part? Did water turn to wine? Were the dead raised?

Again, you'd have to look at the narrative, the genre, the context ... It's a book of many books ...

 

[RJM]

Much has been edited version to version

Do you have examples?

 

[wil]

Do you have examples?

Do you read oaralel bibles?

 

[RJM]

Do you read oaralel bibles?

Not really. I'm not even close to being a Bible scholar.

However:

For instance: 'the first 39 chapters of the book of Isiah are generally thought to have been written by the actual Isaiah ben Amos in the 8th century BCE. Chapters 40–55 were written in the 6th century [BCE] by an author whose identity is unknown, generally called Second Isaiah or deutero-Isaiah, and incorporated in the book.'

The book of Isiah was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, that were written sometime between 150BC to 70AD.

They were buried for nearly two millennia, yet they are identical to the Book of Isiah we have today.

Of course this may exclude weird modern cult-type bibles whose compilers may be capable of doing a little fixing to suit their own teachings?

 

[RJM]

In general the scriptures were copied by monks whose whole mission and purpose was to copy accurately. It's very unlikely different monasteries used different versions?

 

[Ahanu]

The book of Isiah was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, that were written sometime between 150BC to 70AD.

How did the Qumran community understand narratives of war in their writings?

 

[RJM]

How did the Qumran community understand these particular texts about war?

No idea, lol

 

[Thomas]

How did the Qumran community understand narratives of war in their writings?

From what I can glean, I think the Qumran community was an apocalyptic sect within Judaism, with distinctly dualist overtones, looking forward to the 'End of Days', so I would suppose it would not be too far fetched to think they read the war narratives as examples of the battle between light and darkness?