Last Things

muhammad_isa said:
The only difference is that a person might think that they "can get away with it".
We will all see whether that is the case, eventually.
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This is your belief because someone in 7th Century said this and later his sayings were made into your scripture. You don't even have a iota of evidence that what he said was true. He just molded to his convenience what was said centuries before him and put his name on that. That is the tradition of Abrahamic religions. Even after him, more people have done that.
Whatever we have is in this world, there is no other world. No Allah, no judgment, no heaven, no hell, no angels, no Satan, no jinnat. I am surprised how people stick to these superstitious beliefs in this 21st Century. Do you really think that 72 houris will serve martyrs for Allah for eternity in their heavenly mansions?
 
Aupmanyav said:
This is your belief because someone in 7th Century said this and later his sayings were made into your scripture. You don't even have a iota of evidence that what he said was true..
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No .. I am not a believer because "someone in 7th Century said this" ..
I am a believer because to me, it is logical that our lives are not without ultimate purpose.
I acknowledge that human beings are intelligent and we can see that things happen WITH A REASON.

As I grew up in "the west", I could understand what God means, and the absence of divine supremacy leads one to conclude that there is no known power greater than humans. You can believe that if you like .. I cannot.
The narratives in Abrahamic scripture makes a lot of sense.
..and regards actually following its teachings, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Naturally, somebody who has never tasted it, can not claim to have much experience. It
is just that they don't want to taste it .. they have something against it etc.

Aupmanyav said:
Whatever we have is in this world, there is no other world...
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..and that is YOUR belief .. that there is no real fairness in the world apart from
grabbing material success. In actual fact, this type of success is short-lived..

The only lasting success is in the life after death.
I feel no sense of loss in being poor .. discomfort, most SURELY,
but I put my faith in God with absolute trust, that He will not let down any sincere person
who believes in righteousness and judges by what G-d has revealed.

NB. I'm not particularly interested in 72 virgins etc. .. but I don't like suffering ..
.. just the smell of paradise is enough
 
There is no "getting away" from anything. Every action has a reaction in the world it's called balance
 
KnowSelf said:
You are atheist because you were not given or you turned away when the opportunity presented itself to you? God is with you now, pray to Him. Perhaps pride is stumbling block for, or resentment an unwillingness to forgive. Surender is key to knowing God. Surrendering is not following a strict set of rules, surrendering is a willingness to live in God's presence, everything else falls into place because of your relationship to God.
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Which may all be true -- but why the need to change what someone else believes?

Some religions focus a bit too heavily on the unbelievers? I can understand where say, an aggressive atheist comes into my space and starts arguing and shouting at me, then I may defend myself -- but it is quite another thing for me to go out and look for 'unbelievers' and start trying to convince them to believe what I myself believe -- or even to threaten them with consequences if they do not convert to my own belief system?

I think an over-emphasis on converting unbelievers to my own belief system -- whatever belief system that is -- actually just turns the 'unbeliever' away? Many religions seem to spend a lot of time focusing upon the 'unbelievers', when perhaps the energy would be better spent in setting an example that attracts others, instead of threatening them?

Let others be. Leave them alone. It's not my duty to persuade others to believe the same as I do -- or to curse and wish horrible punishment upon them?
 
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Aupmanyav said:
This is your belief because someone in 7th Century said this and later his sayings were made into your scripture. You don't even have a iota of evidence that what he said was true. He just molded to his convenience what was said centuries before him and put his name on that. That is the tradition of Abrahamic religions. Even after him, more people have done that.
Whatever we have is in this world, there is no other world. No Allah, no judgment, no heaven, no hell, no angels, no Satan, no jinnat. I am surprised how people stick to these superstitious beliefs in this 21st Century. Do you really think that 72 houris will serve martyrs for Allah for eternity in their heavenly mansions?
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@Aupmanyav, can you explain how any part of this statement could be interpreted as interfaith? Because I'm not seeing it.
 
KnowSelf said:
You are atheist because you were not given or you turned away when the opportunity presented itself to you? God is with you now, pray to Him. Perhaps pride is stumbling block for, or resentment an unwillingness to forgive. Surender is key to knowing God. Surrendering is not following a strict set of rules, surrendering is a willingness to live in God's presence, everything else falls into place because of your relationship to God.
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I have been there. Surrender, that is known as prapatti in Hinduism. It is a satisfying stance, but it does not lead to truth. An 'advatist' should never have ego/pride, because the basic theory in 'advaita' is that all humans, all animals, all vegetation, and even the non-living things are none other than Brahman. I cannot claim superiority over even a stone.
 
Proverbs 3:5-7 King James Version

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

(Any time, any place, any religion)
 
RJM Corbet said:
Which may all be true -- but why the need to change what someone else believes?
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I would tend to agree. Difference between making your position known and ramming it down everyone's throat. State your peace, plant a seed or two, move on. Like me dad would ofttimes say, "A man's faith is his own. It's for no man to criticize nor for any man to take away."
 
I said:
The universe is as it is, whether you agree with mankind having authority and responsibility or not.
Nothing changes in this regard whether God exists or not. You are still to blame.
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Mmm .. that's about it.
We have free-will, and God knows there will be success and failure.
Whether that is "fair" or unfair I'm not in a position to say.
I'm insignificant compared to what is "behind" the universe. :)
 
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Aupmanyav said:
I have been there. Surrender, that is known as prapatti in Hinduism. It is a satisfying stance, but it does not lead to truth. An 'advatist' should never have ego/pride, because the basic theory in 'advaita' is that all humans, all animals, all vegetation, and even the non-living things are none other than Brahman. I cannot claim superiority over even a stone.
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Then what is wrong? Are you content with life? Put Y for yes or N for no. Please follow directions accordingly..I do not enjoy excess paperwork.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Mmm .. that's about it.
We have free-will, and God knows there will be success and failure.
Whether that is "fair" or unfair I'm not in a position to say.
I'm insignificant compared to what is "behind" the universe. :)
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Or perhaps God is fully involved in our experience? Perhaps God laughs and suffers and learns and gains and loses in the soul of His creation?
 
Religion tells me I am unclean and must reform, ( more like conform) to the laws and regulations put forth by the church in order to be accepted.

God tells me to love others as myself, to be kind and loving to all. Be patient, don't hate, trust in Jesus and live in His image.

No wonder there is confusion in the Garden.
 
RJM Corbet said:
I think an over-emphasis on converting unbelievers to my own belief system -- whatever belief system that is -- actually just turns the 'unbeliever' away?
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Yep.

I agree with you and Aussie. If you want to convert people, lead by example, not by words ... show the way, don't ram it down people's throats.
 
RabbiO said:
Your religion, perhaps. Not mine.
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Old time Baptist preachers and other religious prototypes use scare tactics to reform non-believers and to discipline the flock. Hell, Fire & Brimstone. Fear is used to maintain order and the status quo.

My personal relationship to God is love and respect, He gave me sight so I might see and know Him working in my life.
 
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KnowSelf said:
You are atheist because you were not given or you turned away when the opportunity presented itself to you? God is with you now, pray to Him. Perhaps pride is stumbling block for, or resentment an unwillingness to forgive. Surender is key to knowing God. Surrendering is not following a strict set of rules, surrendering is a willingness to live in God's presence, everything else falls into place because of your relationship to God.
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@KnowSelf, how is this statement interfaith and not proselytizing?

KnowSelf said:
I was being sarcastic in the way old time Baptist preachers and other religious prototypes use scare tactics to reform non-believers and discipline the flock. Hell, Fire & Brimstone. Fear is used to maintain order and the status quo.

My personal relationship to God is love and respect, He gave me sight so I might see and know Him working in my life.
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As a basic pointer, sarcasm doesn’t translate well online. Especially when the subject matter is religion and other people’s beliefs. You need to be mindful of that.

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As this thread is generating some intense posts, I encourage those who haven’t read them ever or lately to review the Code of Conduct. Remember, we’re here to engage in Interfaith dialogue, or that’s what this site is for so if someone’s purposes are different I’m happy to show people out.
 
Aupmanyav said:
I have been there. Surrender, that is known as prapatti in Hinduism. It is a satisfying stance, but it does not lead to truth. An 'advatist' should never have ego/pride, because the basic theory in 'advaita' is that all humans, all animals, all vegetation, and even the non-living things are none other than Brahman. I cannot claim superiority over even a stone.
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I agree claiming seniority/superiority are human traits that have their place in life, not necessarily in a good way. Thinking about Narcissism and question any redeeming qualities associated with this and Type A personality traits?
 
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