Controversial

My story is very similiar Basstian. I think that there are too many other "truths" being tossed about based on man made doctrines. I would assume not belonging to a church and finding my way through the word in these times because to me the churches of today are not on the side of God much as they might think they are.
I am a member of a church however. I believe that I was led to it by a series of events set forth by God. They have no other doctrines except for what was told to us in the bible. I feel the Spirit in that church where I havent in many churches my whole life.

Welcome to CR :)
 
Faithfulservant said:
My story is very similiar Basstian. I think that there are too many other "truths" being tossed about based on man made doctrines. I would assume not belonging to a church and finding my way through the word in these times because to me the churches of today are not on the side of God much as they might think they are.
I am a member of a church however. I believe that I was led to it by a series of events set forth by God. They have no other doctrines except for what was told to us in the bible. I feel the Spirit in that church where I havent in many churches my whole life.

Welcome to CR :)
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I will second witness that Faithful. I have had some of the same events you have and was also able to overcome them and move on. There is a reason for it all and we just keep holding on. Learning, striving and reaching for that perfect man with the help of Jesus.:)
I am glad you found a good place too. Because not a lot of people can say that.
 
Faithfulservant said:
It was a purple robe.. not scarlet. The purple was signifying a mockery of his claim of being the king of the jews. And it wasnt worm that was a horrible thing to be called.. it was a fool.

But you keep searching for your "divine truth" in whatever way you need to.
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Dear Faithfulservant

I search not for divine truth, all that GOD wishes me to know is shown to me with his grace.

This "worm" in Isa. 66:24 is no. 08438 in Strong's Lexicon.  Notice that this "worm" was used thirty four times to express and represent a certain color called "scarlet".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And we know of the saying that when one is embarrased they go red or scarlet. It is also said that Christ was also dressed in scarlet and given a crown of thorns so in effect they were calling Christ a worm.

and here I have some more information on this


"But I am a worm..." - Psalm 22:6

John Gill
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But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. (Psalm 22:6)

Christ calls himself "a worm" ... on account of the opinion that men of the world had of him. ... The Jews esteemed Christ as a worm, and treated him as such; he was loathsome to them and hated by them; every one trampled upon him, and trod him under foot as men do worms. ... The Chaldee paraphrase renders it here a weak worm; and though Christ is the mighty God, and is also the Son of man, whom God made strong for himself; yet there was a weakness in his human nature, and he was crucified through it (2 Cor. 13:4): and it has been observed by some, that the (Hebrew) word 'towla' there used signifies the scarlet worm, or the worm that is in the grain or berry with which scarlet is dyed: and like this scarlet worm did our Lord look, when by way of mockery he was clothed with a scarlet robe; and especially when he appeared in his dyed garments, and was red in his apparel, as one that treadeth in the wine fat; when his body was covered with blood when he hung upon the cross, which was shed to make crimson and scarlet sins as white as snow.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
Dear Basstian

Basstian said:
Jesus Son of God
Man that is a huge claim your telling me 2000 yrs have gone by and still no one as of yet has proved him a fraud.
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I think the scholars are more interested in discovering whether he truly existed in the form that he as been portrayed. They now all agree that he did not because there is absolutely no evidence to prove that he did.

Dear PM

You are missing out on some wonderful gems if you ignore the beautiful scriptures/gospels that Rome chose to keep out of the bible because they teach freedom and how man can achieve his own salvation. Its a bit like only reading one national newspaper, if you read six and listen to your heart you will find the truth.

The Bible did not touch hearts before they were forced to convert which is why there was so many wars in the name of GOD. Not a very good history on that account. It would be interesting poll on how many people actually believe in the words of the bible.

A dear friend of 20 year's goes to church all the time, I started to speak to her of GOD and she said Oh I don't believe in GOD or the bible, I was shocked and asked her why she went to church? She replied I just like the community atmosphere and singing the hymns.

Many pay lip service but few really serve anyone other then the self.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
Mark 15:17 And they clothed Him with purple; and they twisted a crown of thorns, put it on His head
Mark 15:20 And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him

John 19:2 And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe.

John 19:5 Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate said to them, "Behold the Man!"

It was purple :)

Towla` worm

definition
  1. worm, scarlet stuff, crimson
  2. worm - the female 'coccus ilicis'
  3. scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet
    1. the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis"
  1. worm, maggot
  2. worm, grub
  3. the worm "coccus ilicis" ++++ When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding His precious blood that He might "bring many sons unto glory" (Heb. 2:4
[font=Arial, Helvetica]King James Word Usage - Total: 43[font=Arial, Helvetica]scarlet 34, worm 8, crimson 1[/font]

[/font]
 
Dear Faithfulservant I was informed by a scholar that the cloth that Christ wore during the case and the crucifixion was different and your quote above indeed confirms that the clothes that he wore were indeed changed. So thank you for that further clarification.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
Im not sure I understand.. Are you saying that the Romans changed what he wore in the text? Or that the Romans changed his clothing literally?
 
Dear Faithfulservant

here is your own quote from the bible

Mark 15:20 And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
and in Matthew he states the robe was scarlet so who is telling the truth Mark, John or Matthew?

Mt.27:28
"And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe."

being love

Sacredstar
 
You're right it does say that. Be a good question when I meet him. Thanks for correcting me. I found this article on it. This has given me something to study. :)


http://goodnewslady.com/dev.asp?ID=185


In Luke it said it was just gorgeous. Interesting how different people can perceive different things. I dont believe that any of them wrong in the color that they used to describe the robe I think that the color could have been seen as scarlet or purple. Regardless it was representing different things to different people.
 
Dear Faithfulservant

For me it is not not about who is right or wrong but the importance of us sharing truth so that we may indeed see the bones of the matter and through the woods for the trees.

This is an interesting link about contradictions in the bible.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_book.html

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
 
Perhaps you would like to share these on another thread? Or maybe it is appropriate for here?

Love beyond measure faithfulservant

Kim xx
 
Postmaster said:
I've seen many controversial documentaries on SKY regarding Jesus Christ. I will point them out of discussion purposes only and I hope not to offend anyone. I will also point out that I’m a practicing Christian.

One documentary was how Alexander the great had great influence on Jesus Christ...
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I think there might be some truth to this. If you look at the Gospels closely you see that Mark, the first Gospel written, doesn't have any story about Jesus's birth. Matt and Luke both include such stories, but they are in total disagreement with each other except for a few main points (Mary was a virgin, etc.) It makes sense to think that the birth story grew up among Christians at a later time, and many of the details were "hollywoodized", as you say.

Lots of "great men", besides Alexander, had legends about their miraculous births. But if you look at the details, none of the details in Jesus's birth story match very well with these other stories. Look at Matt, for instance. The business about Herod wanting to kill all the male children (which isn't mentioned by ancient historians, by the way) was borrowed from the Exodus story about Moses's birth, not from any Greek pr Roman legends.

So the story of Alexander might have been an influence, in a general sense, on the growth of the Jesus legend, but it wasn't a case of direct borrowing.
There was also a documentary claming that John the Baptist was the original idealist of Jesus's work and even reading the bible you can see how that is played down with your own eyes.
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This is certainly true, as one thing that everyone agrees on is that Jesus was baptized by John. (Well, everyone except a few radicals who think that there never was a Jesus.) That means that to the onlookers it would have looked like Jesus was becoming a follower of John. Also the fact that Christians continued to baptize people indicates that the Christian movement borrowed some of its ideas from John.
[quote
An other controversial documentary states that the 3 wise men were actually Buddhists ... [/quote]
This one seems pretty silly. Luke doesn't mention the wise men, so they were probably invented by Matt to emphasize Jesus's royal nature. If anything, the Greek word "magi" that Matt uses might refer to Persian priests (Zoroastrian or Zurvanite). But it could also just mean "wise men".
Anyone agree to any of this, I personally believe there might be some truth but because Jesus never wrote his teaching and it was done after his death they "Hollywoodised" it. But for it to have gone this far he must have certainly been a lot of truth.
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I think "Hollywoodised" is exactly the correct word. The mistake many people make is to think that the Gospels are history books, in our modern sense. Actually, they're more like the Hollywood version. If you go to see a movie about Churchill, for instance, you don't expect every word he says to be something that was documented and historically accurate. Rather, you expect
  1. Some important historical events
  2. Some famous quotes
  3. To be entertained
I think the Gospels are like that, except that we have to add "To inspire people to greater devotion and faith."
 
Faithfulservant said:
lol many of those I know the answers and can show them in the bible...


http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm
This is one of many apologist websites that are out there to show what ppl consider "contradictions"
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The authors of that site apparently haven't bothered to read the Bible. For instance:

There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day. Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day, the day that Adam and Eve were made. The recap is stated in Gen. 2:4, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." Then, Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2. Proof that it is not a creative account is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam was created.
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They don't seem to have noticed that Genesis 2:5-7 says
Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.... Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
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God doesn't create the plants and animals until two verses later!

Just saying "there is no contradiction" doesn't mean there's no contradiction.
 
Sacredstar said:
Dear Faithfulservant I was informed by a scholar that the cloth that Christ wore during the case and the crucifixion was different and your quote above indeed confirms that the clothes that he wore were indeed changed. So thank you for that further clarification.

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
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Faithfulservant said:
Im not sure I understand.. Are you saying that the Romans changed what he wore in the text? Or that the Romans changed his clothing literally?
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Sacredstar said:
Dear Faithfulservant

here is your own quote from the bible

Mark 15:20 And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him

Love beyond measure

Sacredstar
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Sacredstar said:
and in Matthew he states the robe was scarlet so who is telling the truth Mark, John or Matthew?

Mt.27:28
"And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe."

being love

Sacredstar
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Anyone read the "Christ Commission" by Og Mandino, it is a book with the idea of reviewing the crucifixtion and ressurection based on an investigation like the 'Warren Commision'

It is quite the read and it has an interesting discussion on the above topic.
 
I read The Robe, when I was in grade school. Its about the Roman tribune who oversees the crucifixions of criminals, and he is affected by Jesus' death. Its generally a read for Christians, set in the Roman empire. The writer explores ideas about how politics work, how the tribune gets his job, etc. He converts somewhere along the way, and its an enjoyable read.
FriendRob said:
The authors of that site apparently haven't bothered to read the Bible. For instance:
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That is an often made observation about these popular so-called lists of contradictions. Either somebody did a half-ass job of doing the research, or somebody sabotaged the atheism movement. Actually, rather than sabotage, I think its more likely somebody decided to make a profit off of the new atheists; but the effect is the same. Those stupid lists are all thumbs because they are so lax, and they actually reinforce the belief that atheists are insincere. These lists are merely an annoyance to someone looking for answers independently (which is not easy -- by-the-way). Go into any Christian bookstore and what do you find? : The same thing written by 100 different people. Go into a non Christian bookstore and what do you find? : 98% the same thing, again except written by a mix of non-Christians and Christians. What I'm saying is that controversial just isn't very commercial, so you can look for a very long time and always its the same information. Then you find those stupid half-ass lists, and it makes you just want to give up, jump in the sea, and hope you're swallowed by the right kind of fish.

Now then, who's fault is it if you give up? That doesn't matter, because its your problem not theirs. The secret is to keep going toward Ninevah, as you have been called to do. Jonah 3:4 "And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

Jonah 3:10 "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

From this it is clear that the true seeker works for the salvation, not for the destruction of the wicked (who do not even know their right from their left.)
 
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