Was Jesus God or is it just a name of a human being used by our Creator?

Muckah said:
I apologize so I should explain.

About 6 years ago I burned every bible and resource book I've had since the early 70's. I did so because I was tired of being called a heretic, an evil apostate who is spreading poisonous heresy, etc., and told I'm not a Christian. John MacArthur's teaching condemning non-Trinitarians, and the multiple, judgmental people on other forums who condemn those of us who flat out reject the man-made doctrine of Trinity, drove me over the edge. (as well as my AOG cousin who pastors a local church) I was DONE - So I burned my entire library including 4-5 bibles - probably $2,500 to $3,000 of books if I were to replace them today.

It took a while, but since I've disconnected myself from Christians, I'm at peace. That's why I should have never posted here. I don't want to rekindle any of those emotionally stressful ill feelings. Trinity is a very sore spot with me because Trinitarian's judge and CONDEMN millions of non-Trinitarians. One brother condemning the other over a man-made doctrine that took the bishops of Rome about 300 years to develop - then they murdered thousands for rejecting it. That is anti-Christ.

Quite honestly, I see nothing good in this debacle of a religion called Christianity. Trinity and pre-trib are abominations. Christians can't agree on anything so I'm OUT. I still believe but to maintain any kind of peace and sensibility - I need to stay away from "Christians."

The sad thing is Muslims have a better concept of God than Christians.
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I'm sorry you felt you had to destroy your library.
I'm sad to hear about the destruction of books, the loss of your investment of money and time, but even much more so about how horribly terribly wretchedly MISERABLE AND AWFUL you had to have felt to feel driven to such actions.
I wish you could have found a more supportive world somewhere, and that you could have had a better experience than the wretched mistreatment heaped upon you by all those people who couldn't tolerate an opposing viewpoint.
I wish I could say more. But I can only shake my head at the unconscionable actions of people whose words drove you to the brink.
 
Muckah said:
I understand what you're both saying, but we should all be willing to change our mind, especially when there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to do so - pointing in another direction. My experience with Christians, for example, who believe in pre-trib and Trinity, is they refuse to consider other views and change their mind even when there's a mountain of contradictory evidence against what they believe. They adamantly adhere to what they already believe regardless of the evidence. I believe they do so is because to "change their mind" is actually an admission of 'being wrong' and the words, 'I was wrong' typically is not found in a Christian's vocabulary. They prefer to overcome those contradictions by 'fabricating' their way out of them. That in my view is especially true with TRINITY and pre-trib which are the most contradictory and fabricated of all Christian doctrines. Let me give you a few examples.

Pre-trib...
Jesus said the gathering happens AFTER the tribulation. In Mathew 13, the wheat and tares are gathered by angels AFTER tribulation AKA - at the end of the world, NOT 7 years before like pre-trib teaches.

Paul says the gathering/parousia/ happens AFTER the revelation of the antichrist. Pre-trib believers say the AC is revealed BEFORE the gathering. These are clear contradictions that pretribulationist disregard and have worked hard to 'fabricate' their way out of.

Trinity...
Trinity teaches Jesus is co-equal to the God the Father in knowledge, power, and authority. However, Jesus said 'the Father is greater'. He said he doesn't know the day and hour of his return. He said he can do NOTHING on his own. Over and over again, Jesus acknowledges his subordination to the Father. How do Trinitarians overcome these clear contradictions of co-equality? The TWO NATURES - Trinity's most outstanding cop-out.

Another thing most Trinitarians deny is the developmental history of the Trinity.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea. 2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople. 3. Then, because the Bishops of Rome could not resolve the multiple contradictions I mentioned earlier, they overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES.

These are two of Christianity's most contentious doctrines. In my view, they are not at all complicated but VERY simple to understand. My experience is that the correct interpretation of anything is the most simple, logical, and least contradictory one. Both Pre-trib and Trinity are the most fabricated and contradictory doctrines in Christianity.

Four times in John 17 Jesus prayed for Christians to be united. For some reason, that didn't happen. Christianity is the most divided religion in the world. Some is wrong here.

My views have changed considerably from even 15-20 years ago and have changed my mind on several other issues over the years.

We should all be cautious believing others on the basis of their credentials or position. For example - John Macarthur. I don't like this man whatsoever. People hold him in high esteem and believe just about everything he teaches. His most outrageous teachings are he condemns those of us who reject Trinity and teaches that God will destroy the entire universe at the end on the Millennium.

Christianity is what I know but it's no longer my gig. I've become a member of the DONES AND NONES. Done with the religion of Christianity and want NOTHING to do with any organized religion. I'll work out my own salvation void of Christianity.
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The debates can go on and on, as the opposing side drags out other clues to support their viewpoint.
That's why I admire and appreciate churches who are non-creedal. The Quakers, some Baptist churches, some non denominational churches. I believe the Christadelphians are non creedal but I'm not sure.
I don't know if you were ever a part of a Christadelphian congregation?
 
Jesus is a human being that God used as a host to be among us and saved us.
 
Well, I see that some of the members are hiding something. Their profile is not available to others. Why is that? Are they ashamed of something? I smell a rat.
 
Aupmanyav said:
For example, I am a Hindu,. but may hide that fact. Sort of 'not coming clean'. It is not about you.
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I don't know who it's about, but I'm curious. Not everybody is labeled by a religious affiliation in their profile I don't think.
Are you saying somebody removed their information or something? If they did, why is that a rat?
 
Let me start from the point that God is the Creator. Now more than 2000 years later, we know that the universe is immense. Understanding God as the origin of all, He is more universal than the universe; His laws are universal. We recognise His universal law partially as the natural law in physics, chemistry, mostly, we are getting lost in understanding biology, and it is impossible to us to understand ourselves, even less are we capable to understand (the) all.
We also know that Jesus (p.b.u.h) was a human with a human body, a human brain, with feelings and capabilities that were extraordinary to our scale, but essentially human. He had no knowledge of the all, and his influence is limited to humans on this tiny planet. It doesn't make sense to believe that there is a universal power, God, behind all, and a human being, Jesus, is identical to this universal power. His law is beyond good and evil.
There must even also be a difference between God, the Creator, and God, the Father, to whom we pray, who gave us advice how to act in the universe we can't understand. This is the Word, the Logos, the Kalam. The Word is the understanding of the world that came upon us through the prophets, and the Holy Spirit that may accompany us and guide us.
We may understand the Father as the origin of all good guidance as part of God, the Word as the outcome of the Father, part of God, and the word from the mouth of the prophets (including the deeds of them) as the Word that has come to us from the Father from God.
If now John reports correctly what Jesus said:
"We are one" cannot mean "we are the same" but rather "we have no difference, I am 100% loyal and true to the Word which originates from the Father, Who is the origin of the advice".

This interpretation goes one step further than John, proposing that the Father to Whom we pray is part of God, but it may well explain the apparent contradiction in John's report and introduction.
 
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

I think this answers it for me
 
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