Sufism, Rumi, Heaven, hell, universal salvation or it's irrelevance?

[Ahanu]

I'm not an expert on ibn Arabi or Sufism .
I do know that God is "the First & the Last" .. meaning He has always been and always will be.
.. "God is" [ and the Jewish "I am" ]
or another way of putting it .. God is infinite.

Looking at hell as a sort of incarceration, one might consider the case of a person who is serving life imprisonment and refuses to repent.
It IS possible that a soul might be in that state forever .. no?

It is possible, but I don't know anybody that would intentionally place their hand on a hot stove and leave it there. To do so would be irrational, so to remain in that state of rejection forever would likewise be irrational.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It is possible, but I don't know anybody that would intentionally place their hand on a hot stove and leave it there. To do so would be irrational, so to remain in that state of rejection forever would likewise be irrational.

It is irrational. I think that you might agree that mankind can be irrational.
I wouldn't like to think that any of us are going to hell .. but I'm concerned .. it is so easy to make a big mistake.
We all rely on God's mercy.

 

[Cino]

It is irrational. I think that you might agree that mankind can be irrational.

Oh, I would agree.

I'd also like to direct our attention at the circumstances a given member of mankind finds themselves in, because they could also give a lot of clues as to why they might deliberately grasp at the proverbial hot stove.

Simpler examples like the minimum wage earner coming back to a hated job, burning up their alotted life time, or the abused child returning home to the abusers: irrational, yes, concerning, yes, understandable given the material circumstance, yes, I think.

I like it that some of what my sufi friends talked about was paying close attention to everyday things, to circumstances and conditions. This type of insight grounded in the gross material parameters of our lives yields more understanding of what moves people than working from first principles, such as hell or heaven.

Again, IMO.

 

[Abdullah]

Hello guys, long time no see. How is everybody? Hope you're all doing well.

You know me, I don't beat around the Bush and I give you the real traditional Islam as followed and believed by 90% of the worlds Muslims.
Hell is a real place in Islam, it is literally a pit full of ferocious fire and desbelievers will abide there for all eternity . A lot of Muslims will go in there too but due to them having faith and having done some good deeds in their lives, they will come out of hell one day and enter the garden of heaven.

Real Islamic sufism doesn't deny hell or heaven or any of the exoteric Islamic beliefs. A statement from one of the greatest Sufi's, Ibn Al Arabi, sums up the true Islamic sufism and its adherence to the Quran:

"Beware lest you ever say anything that does not conform to the pure Sacred Law. Know that the highest stage of the perfected ones (rijal) is the Sacred Law of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace). And know that the esoteric that contravenes the exoteric is a fraud" (al-Burhani: al-Hall al-sadid, 32).

 

[SufiPhilosophy]

Per Sufism and it's articulators like Rumi, is hell an everlasting horror where the wicked burn forever?

Or is universal salvation possible?

Or are all of the above irrelevant because the mystic understands God in a way that transcends such notions?

As l see it:
- It depends on the religion of the Sufi (there have been Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian and even Hindu Sufis, possibly also Atheist Sufis or at least Agnostic ones / antinomian Sufis).
- Muslim Sufis are Muslims and therefore adhere to the Islamic view of the afterlife. It is a common misconception that Sufism is a goddess cult stealthily slipped into Islam to soften it up a bit and give rise to groovy greeting cards and that sweet part of instagram where it don't matter how you look.

Actually, heaven and hell are unchanged by people's conceptions or misconceptions of Sufism.
- As for heaven and hell, it's up to God. He could send the good to hell or the bad to heaven if he wished. Does anybody know the hadith about Allah sending people to heaven and hell and not caring in either case? I am unable to locate it.
- As such, hell and heaven could both be temporary or finite, and could eventually both end completely, or one could give rise to the other
- However, Islam teaches that once a person enters heaven after judgement, they will never leave, but a person in hell may one day leave if Allah wills it, but most people will remain there forever.
- Islam teaches that heaven is far far better than earthly life and hell is worse than any horror on earth, such that the flaming fire of combustion on earth is just 1 of 99 components of hellfire. I guess other components could be electrical fire, nuclear fire, fever, tinnitus, and quite a few other things we haven't even thought of!