Muslims are Christian???

There are a wide range of Christian groups and sects and cults, but in general the vast bulk of Christians accept Jesus died on the cross, as a core belief.

Even Haitian vodou believers consider themselves Christians of a sort: they say the Our Father and the Hail Mary:

 
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The good reason being in the case, that the Quran does not agree? Believe one, or believe the other? Else select the parts of the NT gospels I like, and reject the rest?

Ah, but it is not a matter of "what one likes" .. it is a matter of believing that the Qur'an is literally "the word of G-d" or not.
I think that it is, so I therefore reject the beliefs of those people who wrote about Jesus "dying for our sins", for example.

The Qur'an tells us that Jesus didn't die on the cross, although it actually appeared that he did.
It seems quite straightforward to me. The Gospel accounts that write that he died are mistaken, but were
not written purposely to deceive. i.e. Creeds can evolve from mistaken beliefs
 
it is a matter of believing that the Qur'an is literally "the word of G-d" or not
Yes. It is a matter of believing that, or not. Everything is built on that belief. I personally think it's a wrong belief. Ok?
 
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Yes OK .. but as this thread is in the Islam section, I won't ask you why at this moment ;)
Ok. Sorry. I accept that. Apologise

Back to the thread title? Anyone can be a Christian who likes anything about Jesus -- but to be a Muslim a person must accept the truth of the entirety of the Quran and Muhammad (pbuh) as prophet?
 
@muhammad_isa
To answer your question why: because I believe the fact of Jesus's death on the cross. Amongst other things ...

Yes, we know. Old habits die hard. It is alien to you to believe otherwise.

However, whether or not Jesus died does not change the nature of G-d. He is One, without partner.
Almighty G-d is not a sinless man that prays.
 
However, whether or not Jesus died does not change the nature of G-d.
It changes the nature of the truth either of the Quran, or of the Gospels. I believe Christ did not decieve his followers.
Almighty G-d is not a sinless man that prays.
The Christ Emmanuel 'God with us' made manifest in the physical form as a sinless man that prays. Almighty God can be anything God chooses.

So in the end it is what a person believes.

Back to the thread question: the vast majority of Christians, including Unitarians, believe Jesus died on the cross. It is the very core of Christian belief. Musims do not believe that. So ...?
 
Almighty God can be anything God chooses..

Reminds me of star-trek .. what was his name? Odo, wasn't it? A changeling. ;)

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You see, what I have against that concept is that Almighty God would not
want to confuse us at the same time as making the shema [ first commandment ]

i.e. there is no God but me, and I can manifest in so many different ways so you can't be sure
what / who to worship.
 
Withdrawn
 
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However, whether or not Jesus died does not change the nature of G-d.
But it does give us an insight into the Divine Nature, so in that sense it is a Revelation.

Almighty G-d is not a sinless man that prays.
I know this is the Islam section, so I won't labour the point, but that is an incorrect understanding of Christian doctrine.
 
You see, what I have against that concept is that Almighty God would not
want to confuse us at the same time as making the shema [ first commandment ]

i.e. there is no God but me, and I can manifest in so many different ways so you can't be sure
what / who to worship.
Would a sinless man of virgin birth -- the Messiah who ascends alive to heaven -- confuse his followers by lying to them that he was going to die, and then skip out and let someone else die a horrible death in his place?

It's such a complicated and confusing deception, entirely out of character for Jesus. It makes no sense at all.

Occam's Razor: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

The only reason to even try to create such a scenario is to try to make Jesus confirm to what the Quran says about him.

I choose the Gospels, not the Quran, on the point. Sorry, there it is ...
 
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This being the Islam board there is no future in continuing the discussion here. Perhaps return to the thread question? Can a person honestly call himself a Christian who denies the death on the cross?
 
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This being the Islam board there is no future in continuing the discussion here. Perhaps return to the thread question? Can a person honestly call himself a Christian who denies the death on the cross?

It is an awesome chance to have a serious interfaith discussion. It being the Islam board it is ours to respond here as if we were being respectful in a mosque.

Otherwise, yes, start another thread in the Christian board?
 
I withdrew my comment #70 above because the post to which it was addressed, was later edited to clarify.
No disrespect of Islamic belief intended, although I reserve the right to disagree with it -- to believe differently -- on certain points.
 
Would a sinless man of virgin birth -- the Messiah who ascends alive to heaven -- confuse his followers by lying to them that he was going to die, and then skip out and let someone else die a horrible death in his place?

Most definitely not. You keep entirely missing the point.
God and Jesus did not write accounts saying that he was going to die .. some pious author reported Jesus saying "going to be arrested and put on the cross", maybe.
As to somebody else being put on the cross in his place, this is only conjecture. The Qur'an doesn't give all the fine details.

I personally have no need of them. It makes perfect sense to me. It makes no difference to me whether he died and was resurrected, or not.
Nothing changes for me. A man who can die and become alive a day or two later is not God or god-like. There are no trinities other than the ones that were created by polygamous, non Jewish / Abrahamic belief.
[ Abraham and Adam were not Jews, but believed in ONE God. It is a major sin to ascribe partners to G-d ]
 
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Most definitely not. You keep entirely missing the point.
What is the point @muhammad_isa? Please explain carefully why a person should believe the Quranic account of the (non) crucifixion over the Gospels' account?
 
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Who saw him lying dead, anyway?
Who saw him taken down alive?

John’s gospel states:

Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
John 19: 28-35

It's a question of whom to believe, is it not?

New thread:
Did Jesus Die On The Cross?
 
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