I Ching and Tarot

rocala

rocala

Well-Known Member
Messages
363
Reaction score
379
Points
63
Location
London
Over the years I have known quite a few down-to-earth, educated (often highly) people who are attracted to the I ching and to a lesser extent Tarot Cards.

Such things are often regarded as "just a bit of fun" but is there more to it? Any thoughts on this?
 
Leveller said:
Over the years I have known quite a few down-to-earth, educated (often highly) people who are attracted to the I ching and to a lesser extent Tarot Cards.

Such things are often regarded as "just a bit of fun" but is there more to it? Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
In my experience, all forms of divination are ways to psychologically connect with our unconscious mind, specifically our Shadow Self. There aren't any supernatural mechanisms going on, the end results are cultivated from Within the psyche.
 
Leveller said:
Over the years I have known quite a few down-to-earth, educated (often highly) people who are attracted to the I ching and to a lesser extent Tarot Cards.

Such things are often regarded as "just a bit of fun" but is there more to it? Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
A lot more to it.

In my experience they are very different. The Tarot can be abused. It's dangerous and can cause mental problems. Possession by lesser astral entities and spirits, if you like to call it that. I won't go near it. The I Ching does not allow itself to be abused. Divination is only the entry point to the I Ching It is one of the wisest and most respected books in all human history, imo
 
Well, thanks all for your input. @RJM Corbet I think I will follow your book advice, many thanks. Having browsed a little, Carol Anthony's 'A Guide to the I Ching' looks like a good accompaniment. Any thoughts on this?
 
Leveller said:
Well, thanks all for your input. @RJM Corbet I think I will follow your book advice, many thanks. Having browsed a little, Carol Anthony's 'A Guide to the I Ching' looks like a good accompaniment. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I don't know it. It may be a good one.

There are myriad takes and interpretations on the web. Best avoided, imo

A direct translation is probably best. For sure you can't go wrong with the Wilhelm translation. There is also the Legge translation and the Blofeld translation. Best known. But Wilhelm is widely accepted as the best.

I'll post some links here tomorrow, if that's alright?
 
Last edited:
Me thinks it is the readers that can be an issue. That and taking interpretations as gospel and letting them into your being.

I personally don't hold a lot of credence in cards or astrology or crystals...but know plenty that do.

Causation correlation and coincidence....if the results can be manipulated into be miscategorized and this is where problems occurs to believers.

Words and thoughts have tremendous power over our being...if we let them.
 
wil said:
Me thinks it is the readers that can be an issue. That and taking interpretations as gospel and letting them into your being.
I personally don't hold a lot of credence in cards or astrology or crystals...but know plenty that do.

Causation correlation and coincidence....if the results can be manipulated into be miscategorized and this is where problems occurs to believers.

Words and thoughts have tremendous power over our being...if we let them.
Click to expand...


All true. Why does someone want to know the future anyway? It immediately opens a person up to wanting to hear the future they want to hear? Charlatans and also some people who believe 'I'm so psychic' are easily capable of running around with this sort of thing.

Imo the I Ching uses divination -- the natural wish of some people to be able to know a future -- in order to lay down a chessboard of possibilities that can be referenced to navigate life situations. The divination needs to be replaced by knowledge of the book.

It is a very profound book in my opinion. Confucius added valuable passages which are now an accepted part of it.
 
Last edited:
An I Ching divination needs to be reduced to a single question, the answer to which must be yes or no. By that time most people have worked it out for themselves. Anyone going to the I Ching expecting to ask what does my life hold for 2022 is totally in the wrong area, imo
 
I like the I Ching and second the "Wilhelm Translation" recommendation. If you're still interested by mid-June (norther hemisphere), and have the opportunity and inclination, gather yourself a set of yarrow stalks. Of course, coins work just as well (they don't have to be ancient Chinese coins, either).

And I like the Tarot, too. Here, I'd recommend starting with the time-honored "Rider Waite Smith" cards, to me they are the equivalent of the Wilhelm Translation for Tarot :) I don't think Tarot is tainted by any unwholesome influences, but if you don't feel comfortable with the imagery or the reputation, then obviously, don't use it.

There is more to divination than the fun aspect, in my opinion. The psychological way of understanding divination, of connecting with unconscious parts of the psyche via the images and verdicts, is a good one, and it sits fairly well with modern sensibilities. It can lower the bar, so to speak for engaging with divination. In the end, the cognitive framework becomes less important than the act itself, I think. Does it matter in practice in which programming language my favorite internet search engine is written? To me, no - it's the results I'm after, not any theories about the mechanics. (But a fun question to ask any oracle: "who are you")
 
RJM Corbet said:
An I Ching divination needs to be reduced to a single question, the answer to which must be yes or no. By that time most people have worked it out for themselves. Anyone going to the I Ching expecting to ask what does my life hold for 2022 is totally in the wrong area, imo
Click to expand...

But a single coin throw (heads = yes / tails = no) is enough for a yes/no question? Isn't the I Ching a bit of an overkill for such a question?

Agreed regarding overgeneral quesitons.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
How would you explain 'How' the I Ching could possibly predict future events?
Click to expand...

That question is not well suited for the I Ching, I think. It presupposes that the future is already definite rather than subject to my ability to influence events (to the extent I am able to). Therefore, I tend to ask questions like "what are my options for such-and-such outcome to be reached" or "what are the obstacles for such-and-such outcome" ... that way, I can understand my current situation and the future possibilities better, and what to consider when getting from now to then.
 
I am not into crystals, tarot, or even flipping coins, it is so interesting people try to use these methods to find answers. When I started to ask questions about things before the voices and words, I used the pendulum to figure things out with. I created a 500 word sheet breaking the list of words into eight parts, instead of spelling a word you would find it's location. After I figured out how to become myself, I then stopped using the pendulum as words started to form in my inner eye, latter developing into thoughts about thoughts.

I am only responding here to explain how hard it is to get accurate results from any source outside just purely having just a mountain of time and being able to figure so many things out. Future predictions are made through "Time forward", to understand this you have to understand how minds try to figure us out. Minds try to figure you out not knowing anything about you they use the time inside of them to try to figure things out. A while back I asked a mind to find me a basketball just as a test to see how long it took to find the item and only that item. Two or three weeks passed by, and while in meditation, the mind moved up to me and showed me a beaten and deflated basketball. It takes time to figure things out and it takes so much time to find things that can be taught inside of you.

I think of time forward like this you have minds moving into time to find answers to things until they hit a precipice or a point that all timelines merge onto, If the mind at this precipice does not find you there then it will travel back to find out what happened to you. This traveling back of minds from time forward is how you find thoughts about future events. This is why very large minds that have a lot of minds can find future thoughts easier then smaller minds.

One other way I also figure time forward out is to look to the bookshelf it is everyone in time right now becoming something you have to project this time forward, the more time you have the further forward you can project the future with higher probabilities.

I hope I did not side rail this topic to much only trying to give my 2 cents worth.

Powessy
 
Thanks @powessy, really interesting!

How did you compile that initial list of 500 words?
 
Last edited:
Leveller said:
Well, thanks all for your input. @RJM Corbet I think I will follow your book advice, many thanks. Having browsed a little, Carol Anthony's 'A Guide to the I Ching' looks like a good accompaniment. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
RJM Corbet said:
I'll post some links here tomorrow, if that's alright?
Click to expand...
http://www.hermetica.info/

The above website has a vast store of I Ching (Yijing) information and links.
Especially:
Yijing Links
6 pages. (Revised 8-18)

Also more stuff on the IO Tao Forums:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/forums/tao/
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/11355/page-3

RJM Corbet said:
I believe the I Ching (rather than the Tao Te Ching) is the true sourcebook for Taoism:
https://www.labirintoermetico.com/09IChing/Wilhelm_R_The_I_Ching_or_Book_of_Changes_(abriged).pdf
But I strongly believe that to study I Ching it is necessary to own an unabridged copy of the actual (paper) book.

2062



More Tao stuff here:
https://www.hermetica.info/OriginalDao.html
原The Other Original Dao道
The Path, before Kongzi and Laozi Paved It
© Bradford Hatcher 2012, Version 12.8

Valuable I Ching links to different versions and translations:
https://www.hermetica.info/K-YiLink.htm

Check out this brilliant website for lots more:
http://www.hermetica.info/

And a lot of valuable Tao information and discussion here:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/11355/

Tao Te Ching comparative versions by Boston University pdf
https://www.bu.edu/religion/files/pdf/Tao_Teh_Ching_Translations.pdf
Click to expand...
RJM Corbet said:
Thank you.

Go to
http://www.hermetica.info/

Scroll down to and download free pdf:
Yijing Studies (Yixue 易學)
The Book of Changes: Yijing (I Ching) - Word By Word
Volumes One + Two. Now an unsecured, printable PDF. 1100 pages.

Also this stuff from there:
Yijing Hexagram Names and Core Meanings
易經卦名和中義 Yìjīng guàmíng hé zhōngyì
134 pages. (Revised 1-12)

Yixue Bibliography
An ongoing, collaborative project.
177 pages. (Rev. 8-24-18)

Especially:
Yijing Links
6 pages. (Revised 8-18)

Also look for:
The Complete I Ching
The Definitive Translation by the Taoist Master Aped Huang

Published by:
Inner Traditions Rochester, Vermont

Free pdf available by googling around a bit, lol ...
Click to expand...
Apology for any repetition
 
Last edited:
Cino said:
But a single coin throw (heads = yes / tails = no) is enough for a yes/no question? Isn't the I Ching a bit of an overkill for such a question?

Agreed regarding overgeneral quesitons.
Click to expand...
I would say the I Ching will show a layout regarding the action of the superior and the inferior man. But a person has to be clear what he's asking. Often clarifying the question results in the question answering itself, with no need to consult. This is the preferable option, as the I Ching does not like trivial questions imo?
Cino said:
How did you compile that initial list of 500 words?
Click to expand...
Anything will do for divination. It can be by opening a Bible at random and reading whatever the eye falls upon. Also a dictionary or Rogets Thesaurus, could be used. But divination is best avoided, imo.

'Amir Alzzalam said:
How would you explain 'How' the I Ching could possibly predict future events?
Click to expand...
It has timeline "algorithms' from past/present to future. I will post some of what it says later, if I may?

But the last act is always my own. Mostly it's less about knowing what will happen and more about how to act as a 'superior man' in a given situation. It's very vast, but very condensed. It seems so simple at first.

It's composed of 64 figures each of six lines, which are said to contain all possibilities -- like a chessboard, no two games can ever be the same.

There's the story of of someone who did a King a favour and when the King asked him what he would like as payment, he asked for a chessboard with one rice grain on the first square, two grains on the second square, four in the third, eight in the next, and so on.

The King laughed at such a small request, until he realised all the grain in the kingdom would not complete the board.
powessy said:
I am not into crystals, tarot, or even flipping coins, it is so interesting people try to use these methods to find answers. When I started to ask questions about things before the voices and words, I used the pendulum to figure things out with. I created a 500 word sheet breaking the list of words into eight parts, instead of spelling a word you would find it's location.After I figured out how to become myself, I then stopped using the pendulum as words started to form in my inner eye, latter developing into thoughts about thoughts.
Click to expand...
This, imo.
Divination must fall away.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths
Proverbs 3

(apology for all the edits ...)
 
Cino said:
I like the I Ching and second the "Wilhelm Translation" recommendation. If you're still interested by mid-June (norther hemisphere), and have the opportunity and inclination, gather yourself a set of yarrow stalks.
Click to expand...
upload_2022-1-13_10-35-40.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top