End Goals of Your Faith?

Aupmanyav said:
NO. :)
"Bhasmibhootasya dehasya, punaragamanam kutah?"
After the body turns to ashes, where is the coming back? - Charvaks said this before Buddha's time.
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And there it is.............
And so the 'now' is like an oft repeating gift to be treasured in each instant.
How every glance at my wife, or nature and more.. is a delightful joy.

That's why I perceive unhappy people to be such a sad sight, because they can't be seeing that 'Now' is the great gift.
 
badger said:
Dust. My end. :)
The same as for any tree, sparrow, anything.
But that's alright. I was dead for countless billions of years before life, and that was alright.
After my end it can be alright again.


I am a to tiny miniscule part of the whole, the Diety, and every part of me always will be.
For humans to imagine that they have some special future, something more than other lifeform, is strange to me .
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I'm confused, you state that you turn back to dust, do you believe that a sentient, biologically complex organism such as ourselves simply emerges from dust? Then you claim the existence of a 'deity' that you are a 'part' of for eternity.

Do you not believe you have a Soul of some sort? What's the point of this deity if you come from dust and return to dust? Why would you find "humans to imagine that they have some special future, something more than other lifeform," . . . but you find belief in an unproven, external deity to be plausible?

There is plenty of evidence for a Greater Self within us all, and zero evidence for an external god. The very fact that Proto-man was just one of many animal species fighting for survival over the millennia and his brain, despite natural selective evolutionary mechanisms that apply to all species, evolved far beyond any other species, demonstrates 'deliberate cause'. And this implies an Isolate Intelligence/Consciousness working through our physical being (brain/body), a Soul/Psyche separate from the objective universe and its physical laws and limitations.

This Soul/Psyche does not behave as though it were merely a “sum total” of the brain’s sensory and manipulative capacities, combining and recombining inputted information as though it were an “organic” electronic computer. It has a sense of identity, a sense of uniqueness, a sense of distance, and differentiation from everything else that exists. In the case of proto-man, natural selection would occur in favor of almost anything else besides the brain. He would become stronger, hairier, tougher, meaner, and faster. According to natural selection, you and I should be gorillas.

But we are not gorillas. Indeed, as our intelligence has made life progressively easier for us, we have become weaker and more vulnerable physically. We are healthier and more long-lived only because our intelligence has enabled us to produce medicines to stave off diseases, and dietary standards to maximize our health and growth potential. We have controlled environments to fend off the elements, and have developed weapons to fend off other creatures.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I'm confused, you state that you turn back to dust, do you believe that a sentient, biologically complex organism such as ourselves simply emerges from dust? Then you claim the existence of a 'deity' that you are a 'part' of for eternity.

Do you not believe you have a Soul of some sort? What's the point of this deity if you come from dust and return to dust? Why would you find "humans to imagine that they have some special future, something more than other lifeform," . . . but you find belief in an unproven, external deity to be plausible?

There is plenty of evidence for a Greater Self within us all, and zero evidence for an external god. The very fact that Proto-man was just one of many animal species fighting for survival over the millennia and his brain, despite natural selective evolutionary mechanisms that apply to all species, evolved far beyond any other species, demonstrates 'deliberate cause'. And this implies an Isolate Intelligence/Consciousness working through our physical being (brain/body), a Soul/Psyche separate from the objective universe and its physical laws and limitations.

This Soul/Psyche does not behave as though it were merely a “sum total” of the brain’s sensory and manipulative capacities, combining and recombining inputted information as though it were an “organic” electronic computer. It has a sense of identity, a sense of uniqueness, a sense of distance, and differentiation from everything else that exists. In the case of proto-man, natural selection would occur in favor of almost anything else besides the brain. He would become stronger, hairier, tougher, meaner, and faster. According to natural selection, you and I should be gorillas.

But we are not gorillas. Indeed, as our intelligence has made life progressively easier for us, we have become weaker and more vulnerable physically. We are healthier and more long-lived only because our intelligence has enabled us to produce medicines to stave off diseases, and dietary standards to maximize our health and growth potential. We have controlled environments to fend off the elements, and have developed weapons to fend off other creatures.
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Hello Amir... :)
Were you asking me questions or just telling me things? :D
Dust to dust, ashes to ashes..... have you ever heard anything like that before?
I think that every single particle is part of the whole, the Diety, but a Diety far too vast to be aware of us.
But that's just what I believe... I'm not trying to sell it to you or anybody.
 
'Amir Alzzalam said:
I am interested in knowing what your religion/faith's End Goal is in regards to your physical demise (Death)?
I am an adherent of the Left Hand Path and my belief lies in the transference of my conscious awareness to my Greater Self/GodSelf and the individual Subjective Reality I am creating. For us, this is the form of Self-Deification spoken about with LHP Adherents.

What are your Beliefs?
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Assume that your death is going to take place in five minutes! If you are in this mood forever, you are always attentive about God (as said in the Mahabharata). This is not mere assumption. Are you sure that this can’t take place? In any moment death can attack anybody at any place! If you are ready with the grace of Datta, you need not worry at all.


A passenger having a ticket in his pocket need not fear for the checking squad, which may appear at any time. You need not fear for the cruel money-lender, if you are ready with cash to be paid as per the pronote. You need not fear for the attack of money-lender at any time.


The effort in achieving the grace of the Lord is the most important goal of human life. This point will be realized when the human being is in the last minute of this life cycle because at that time of juncture, the upper world starts appearing practically to the eyes through the arrived messengers of Lord. Unfortunately there will be no time for spiritual effort at that juncture, even though realization comes.


God told me the following two verses and asked me to memorise these two verses ten times a day so that the mind will be fixed on God. The first verse means ‘At the time of death the last knowledge dawns to the mind by which the human being realizes that for those whom he has spent his energy and lifetime, are unable to protect him from that moment onwards. The Lord who can protect is not arriving then because no time and energy was spent for Him’.


The second verse means ‘When the time was there, this realization did not come and when the realization came, there is no time. By this the human being undergoes silent suffering, which is the agony’. Lord told me that every human being will be given this last knowledge and this agony in the last couple of moments. I started remembering these verses every day ten times and the result of their memory is this wonderful divine knowledge.


When the soul embedded by subtle body leaves the gross body in death, there will be inconvenience in the exit of the soul. This inconvenience gives some pain because the soul was so far attached to properties(welath) earned by it and to its family members. To leave all these in one instance permanently gives lot of pain.


That is the last minute in which the fascination to wealth and family exists, which is known by the soul in death. As much fascination you develop with these worldly bonds in your life, so much will be the pain! The inconvenience in leaving the gross body is just like removing a tight shirt from the body.


The fascination developed to this gross body is this inconvenience, which also joins the pain. The two names of the gross body as deha and sharira always remind you that one day the gross body gets destroyed.


Deha means that which is burnt in fire (dahyate iti). Sharira means that which decomposes into five elements in case the body is not burnt and buried (shiryate iti). Whenever, you refer your gross body, you must use these two words so that your fascination to it does not grow much.


Apart from the above said pain, lot of intense pain is also developed as I explained in two verses above regarding the last flash of intelligence and last agony subsequently developed. This pain is far greater than the pain received by soul due to the inconvenience in relieving itself from gross body.


To understand this clearly, I give an example: One person is travelling in a bus, which was crowded much and the person felt lot of inconvenience and pain in the journey. After reaching the next city, he attended an interview in which he failed since he could not answer any question.


While travelling also, he knows very well that he is zero in the subject and will certainly loose the interview. He is attending the interview forced by his parents and hence the journey is inevitable. The pain caused due to inconvenience in the journey is far lesser than the future pain imagined due to certainty in loss of coming interview.


Hence, the pain in the inevitable death is far lesser than the pain to be received in the hell in the immediate future due to absence of protection from God, whom the soul never cared. The cared family cannot protect the soul in the hell. Knowledge of this topic and its frequent memory in life will help any soul in developing care to God and in reducing fascination to these worldly bonds.


Jesus advised the people weeping for Him (while He was carrying on the cross), not to weep for Him, but to weep for themselves and for their children. The meaning of this advice is that those people are not putting up any effort in the spiritual path for which only they should weep or worry.


The real worry comes only at the time of death, when all our valid worldly activities look like zeros and all the invalid spiritual activities look like numbers with numerical values! He was advising us about such time of death during His time of death, in which only we can find zeros and numbers separately in reality.


The main aim of human life starts with the recognition of God and in fixing the main aim of human life as attainment of the grace of God before this rarest human life ends. The analysis of human faculties and human behavior etc., involves various concepts of mere living of a person in this world.


When the spectrum is limited to the worldly life only without touching the divine life, what is the use since the main aim is not touched at all? A student admitted in the college for studies is also admitted in the hostel. The academic life in the college is far better than the hostel life since attaining the degree is the main aim. Of course, absence of all hostel problems gives peace that helps the academic studies.


If this peace is not used for the main academic studies and is used to have good health, which is useful in enjoying the luxuries, such peace is useless and solutions for hostel problems are also insignificant. The direction of the worldly life is important in deciding good or bad.




[In the last minutes of your life, the true picture appears before your eyes in which all your materialistic achievements given terrible numerical values by you appear as absolute zeroes! In the same true picture, all the spiritual efforts neglected by you as zeroes appear with terrible numerical values! This true picture is called as last intelligence at the time of death. Since there is no time to follow the true picture, your mind is burnt with a terrible shock, which is called as the agony at the time of death. Like this, the life of every ordinary materialistic soul ends with last intelligence and last agony!]


The state at your death continues after that also


Even after death, a bonded soul remains bonded with this world only and such soul wandersbetween hell, heaven and earth only


Remember that you can’t achieve anything extra after death. Whatever you attained while you are alive here, that much only follows you after death also. If you got salvation from worldly bonds and caught God in human form here, you are a liberated soul and you will be attached with God in energetic form also in the upper world since energetic incarnation is the same human incarnation. If you are fascinated to worldly bonds here, you are not a liberated soul after death also and continue with the same worldly fascinations. Due to the severe fascination to worldly bonds here, you will wander on this earth as an evil spirit (ghost) only.


Since you have neglected the human incarnation, you can’t be attached in the energetic form of God there due to same repulsion of common media. Hence, death has no specialty, which is like a gate between here and there. Therefore, learn the truth and follow the spiritual path here itself to attain anything here itself while you are alive. If you are misguided to think that something different will be achieved by you after death, you are simply fooled. Even after death, a bonded soul remains bonded with this world only and such soul wanders between hell, heaven and earth only.
 
I read the post from the first word to the last and here is my reply:
dattaswami2 said:
Assume that your death is going to take place in five minutes! If you are in this mood forever, ..
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Now this is a "mega post". Meg Posts generally contain verbiage. But strangely, this post is pure verbiage. I congratulate you for posting this.

Of course everyone dies, but no reason we should be constantly thinking about it. We also have a life to live. I have never worried about death. I know exactly what happens. I am an atheist. I never think about any God, unless forced to do so by theist posts.
 
Aupmanyav said:
I read the post from the first word to the last and here is my reply:
Now this is a "mega post". Meg Posts generally contain verbiage. But strangely, this post is pure verbiage. I congratulate you for posting this.

Of course everyone dies, but no reason we should be constantly thinking about it. We also have a life to live. I have never worried about death. I know exactly what happens. I am an atheist. I never think about any God, unless forced to do so by theist posts.
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Reply removed at user's own request
 
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Aupmanyav said:
Of course everyone dies, but no reason we should be constantly thinking about it. We also have a life to live. I have never worried about death. I know exactly what happens. I am an atheist. I never think about any God, unless forced to do so by theist posts.
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No, you do NOT know "what happens" .. nobody does !
 
Aupmanyav said:
If you take the help of science, then everything becomes clear.
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How can science observe what happens to be non-observable?
It can't .. it can only show you a dead physical body. :)
You might assume that there is none other than physical manifestation..
..but billions of people assume that the physical is not all that is.

No .. you are just 'hiding' behind science .. you can't hide from truth.
 
muhammad_isa said:
How can science observe what happens to be non-observable?
It can't .. it can only show you a dead physical body. :)
You might assume that there is none other than physical manifestation..
..but billions of people assume that the physical is not all that is.

No .. you are just 'hiding' behind science .. you can't hide from truth.
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What makes you think that there is an non-observable? Why should I assume otherwise?
What other people believe is their business.
Tell me what is truth and give me your evidence for that.
What is 'divine' and who certifies 'divine guidance'?
 
muhammad_isa said:
I do agree.
However, Divine guidance is there for our benefit, and is not there to make us miserable.
On the contrary..
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I can acknowledge your belief in divine guidance, it's just that I don't believe in an aware, interested or involved divinity. I see nature as the guvnor and so I do live every moment as best I can.
 
Aupmanyav said:
What makes you think that there is an non-observable? Why should I assume otherwise?
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To me, that is an untenable position.

"science" is confined to what we observe/understand at this point in time.
It is therefore not a basis for assuming that only what is known today, due to "science" is all there is.
No .. we cannot make reliable decisions about theological matters solely on current scientific knowledge.

You don't actually know .. you just prefer to say that there is no soul .. no life after death etc. ;)
 
muhammad_isa said:
To me, that is an untenable position.

"science" is confined to what we observe/understand at this point in time.
It is therefore not a basis for assuming that only what is known today, due to "science" is all there is.
No .. we cannot make reliable decisions about theological matters solely on current scientific knowledge.

You don't actually know .. you just prefer to say that there is no soul .. no life after death etc. ;)
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It's true that our science cannot prove anything about afterlife. As each new age is entered , so humanity looks back and realises how poor our knowledge was before. And that will be the case again...and again.
And so although I am a deist I can't prove anything about that, and so I listen to others about their beliefs and I try to acknowledge them without demanding proof. After all, a faith or a belief is just that.....I only challenge people who think they have certitude, who think they know it all.
 
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muhammad_isa said:
It is therefore not a basis for assuming that only what is known today, due to "science" is all there is.
No .. we cannot make reliable decisions about theological matters solely on current scientific knowledge.
You don't actually know .. you just prefer to say that there is no soul .. no life after death etc. ;)
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If you show me the evidence, then I will believe.
And you think we can make reliable decisions based on the hundreds of different views offered by people who have no real evidence to show?
 
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