Wow....what?
Thank you again.... This section seems to be blooming.
Thank you.Judah Sicario = Judas Iscariot
That's clever
Judas Maccabeus?just that there isn't a Judas in the whole of the Old Testament, an
Interesting point! I see that he is both Judah and Judas. This Judas doesn't seem to appear before this time... I didn't know about his name, have not studied that era.Judas Maccabeus?
Depends on which Bible
The Catholic Bible includes Maccabees one and two ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Maccabeus
I know sicario means hired killer: the word could be derived from a weapon they used?Waking up...was not the escariot something about a group he was with? Curved sword carriers? Go back to sleep wil
The sicario was a long bladed dagger, I have read. Nasty....I know sicario means hired killer: the word could be derived from a weapon they used?
Yeah..i recall it being a group more than a name..like John the Baptist...judas the Iscariot..The sicario was a long bladed dagger, I have read. Nasty....
Yes....and some time after Jesus's mission as well, but I guess that the gospel writers were translating many Galilean terms in to Greek and Latin for the benefit of their main readership and it was only words that they dare not omit (through fear of God's anger?) but wanted to be breezed over that got left in Eastern Aramaic, Cephas and Barabbas being examples, imo.Yeah..i recall it being a group more than a name..like John the Baptist...judas the Iscariot..
... I am of the opinion that Mark provides a reference to an event that took place in 67 AD during the Jewish revolt. I see in the ‘I am Legion’ narrative in Mark 5 a connection with the battle of Gamla.
Mark 5
1They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gerasenes. 2 And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. 3 He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, 4 for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. 6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. 7 And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” 8 For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” 9 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” 10 And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. 11 Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, 12 and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.” 13 So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea.
Compare to this.
Country of the Gerasenes
The town itself is not named in Scripture, and is referred to only in the expression, "country of the Gerasenes" (Mark 5:1; Luke 8:26,37; see Westcott and Hort, The New Testament in Greek, Appendix, 11). This describes the district in which Christ met and healed the demoniac from the tombs, where also took place the destruction of the swine. It was on the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee, and must have been a locality where the steep edges of the Bashan plateau drop close upon the brink of the lake. This condition is fulfilled only by the district immediately South of Wady Semak, North of Qal `at el-Chucn. Here the slopes descend swiftly almost into the sea, and animals, once started on the downward run, could not avoid plunging into the depths. Many ancient tombs are to be seen in the face of the hills. Gerasa itself is probably represented by the ruins of Kurseh on the South side of Wady Semak, just where it opens on the seashore. The ruins of the town are not considerable; but there are remains of a strong wall which must have surrounded the place. Traces of ancient buildings in the vicinity show that there must have been a fairly numerous population in the district.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/gerasa-gerasenes.html
What does this have to do with Gamla?
Josephus also provides a detailed description of the Roman siege and conquest of Gamla in 67 CE by components of legions X Fretensis, XV Apollinaris and V Macedonica.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamla#Siege_of_Gamla
Here is how Josephus describes the end of the siege.
…the Romans got up and surrounded them, and some they slew before they could defend themselves, and others as they were delivering up themselves; and the remembrance of those that were slain at their former entrance into the city increased their rage against them now: a great number also of those that were surrounded on every side, and despaired of escaping, threw their children and their wives, and themselves also down the precipices, into the valley beneath, which, near the citadel, had been dug hollow to a vast depth.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-4.html
From 67 onward, X Fretensis fought in the war against the Jews.
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In 70, X Fretensis took part in the siege of Jerusalem
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When X Fretensis arrived from Syria, it occupied the Mount of Olives, in front of the Temple. The soldiers of this legion had a special incentive to fight: they had been defeated by the Zealots in 66, and wanted revenge.
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The emblem of the legion, a boar or pig, was visible on several places and must have been intended to humiliate the Jewish population.
https://www.livius.org/articles/legion/legio-x-fretensis/
Elements of the legion X Fretensis, whose symbol was a pig, took part in the siege of Gamla where many Jews died falling down a steep cliff. How much of X Fretensis took part? There were three legions represented. In that era, a legion consisted of about 5300 men plus calvary plus offices plus some specialized auxiliaries. If the force attacking Gamla were the size of a legion, commanded by a Legio familiar with handling a unit of that size, the ‘pig’ soldiers involved may very well have numbered 2000.
Nobody has a herd of swine numbering 2000 that they let walk around on their own in a region where there are steep slopes. The number 2000 is not incidental. The demons call themselves Legion. They beg not to be sent out of the country but are dispatched in the form of pigs falling to their deaths down a cliff.
I see a revenge fantasy where Jesus will dispatch the hated X Fretensis legion and the Romans in general by expelling them from the country or killing them. When will this happen? When Jesus is revealed as “Son of the Most High God”. I have argued elsewhere that when the high priest asks Jesus if he is the “the son of the Blessed One” he means the revolutionary, Roman expelling type of Messiah. And Jesus answer Yes I am.
This would put the writing of this portion of Mark at sometime after 67 AD, when the full details of what happened at Gamla were known in Rome. Since X Fretensis took part in the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and were associated with the destruction of the Temple, it would not seem to be much of a stretch to infer a post 70 AD date for writing this passage to further single out the ‘pig soldiers’ as symbolizing the Romans forces as a whole.
Very interesting suggestion. I noticed that point about Roman troops stuffing emblems of pigs in to the Jews faces. This parallels the interference in the Temple@badger
I wonder if you would be interested in this take on the story of the Gerasene swine by @Miken in the thread below:
https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/19492/page-3#post-338195