The Abramelin Operation and faith

[powessy]

Oh, I suspect a clairvoyant could be dangerous at any age, but noted.

I think I agree with you according to my limited understanding of your experience when you say "select an allowed mind". The only trouble I see with that is that some people perceive themselves to have more allowed minds than others. Logic would dictate that those with too many allowed minds would have quite a task ahead limiting themselves to just one. If I put myself into your scenario, however, I don't think I would have any difficulty choosing only one, seeing I perceive no allowed minds at the moment.



I like your statement "To truly do this operation is to do it without knowing anything at all." Certainly I have been and still am quite willing to put in the time, as much at it takes. This spiritual journey has been my driving force. I won't stop, don't worry.

An allowed mind, is a mind that has been around since life first started on this planet. I have a real difficulty trying to explain this. The simplest way to understand this is, every thing on this planet has a yourself. Think of it like a honey comb each compartment is a yourself, of some life form that is or was something at one time. Now imagine the honey comb is able to figure itself out it is everything inside itself to become something that can figure things out.

now on earth there are only 500 million allowed minds/honey combs. This means there are only 500 million people on this planet that are allowed minds. They allow things inside themselves so they can figure things out. To be allowed is that you will always be you, bob is always bob until you cannot become something again. To be not allowed is, bob will never become bob again. An allowed mind can only allow one of each thing inside itself.

We go through five distinct metamorphosis during our life. ITSELF before our sex is determined. YOU, approximately 5th to 7th month, you are you. ME, age 4 to 7, I am me. YOURSELF, 11 to 15 you are yourself. The last step is Himself/herself this is around age 19 to 21. The Problem with children clairvoyants are that there are little minds in the veil that can find time inside of any child. These children I call “MEs” and they are corrupted, you just don’t know what you are dealing with. MEs cannot become anything else but they can find time in children.

an allowed mind will find thoughts about things not knowing anything at all. They will be very sympathetic to nature and the world around them. They will be empathic, introverts, unless around others like themselves. Allowed minds will have more vivid dreams including astral projections and odes.

Powessy

 

[Ella S.]

You've given me cause for relief twice in as many days, thank you. Now "astral" is a word that would have many from my old camp asking you where you wanted your new door, but I take it to mean outside the physicality? Many who are not occult believe that we have souls, or spirits, or at least a component that is not physical. I'm interested in learning more.

It's possible to induce an out-of-body experience, which is frequently accompanied by a vivid "waking dream." In my opinion, this is what people are referring to when they talk about astral travel.

I think it's easy to mistake these waking dreams for going to real places on other "planes of existence" but studies on OBEs have shown that they are more like vivid daydreams. Most occultists would make a strict distinction between truly metaphysical astral travel and mere daydreaming. I am not convinced that there really is a sincere difference aside from the out-of-body sensation and the vividness of the experience.

I also don't think this should be surprising. If we read many ancient mystical texts, they believed in mind-body dualism. The idea of ancient methods of astral travel was to remove oneself from the body by focusing on the internal experience of the mind. Many older models of the "spirit world" were said to be inside of one's own specific "psyche" or "soul" which other spirits dwelled inside of, essentially like Jungian archetypes.

If you believe in idealism, in other words that the mind is the only part of mind-body dualism that exists, then it makes sense to interpret these experiences as transcendent, supernatural, metaphysical, etc. If you view the mind as a product of matter, as I do, then these experiences are mostly a way of exploring and organizing your own mind to produce specific states of consciousness or as meditative aids.

Some people might say that I have never experienced "true astral travel" if I'm so quick to describe it as a daydream. I would say that "true astral travel" probably doesn't and can't exist because we are reasonably certain that the mind is generated by and confined to our physical, bodily brains. "Astral" is essentially synonymous with "imaginary" to me.

 

[Ella S.]

Hmm, I might have to get a second opinion on that. Sometimes things are not as complicated as they seem. That's why I like knowing nothing and don't trust everything my physical senses seem to be telling me. I like the thought of leaving the thinking to someone else

I agree that inducing an out-of-body experience through meditation usually requires a great deal of practice in easier meditations. Visualization exercises in particular help build the "mental muscles" required for such a dramatic experience. Having a mentor who knows the path is extremely helpful here, just as it is with learning a new language or becoming an artisan or any other skill.

 

[Cino]

Hmm, I might have to get a second opinion on that. Sometimes things are not as complicated as they seem. That's why I like knowing nothing and don't trust everything my physical senses seem to be telling me. I like the thought of leaving the thinking to someone else.

Good points. Not to be overthinking, I still think that there's an immediate, experiential difference between the mental practice of not taking every old thought super seriously, and just drifting aimlessly. Maybe it's my Buddhist training: I prefer taking the middle path in cases like this.

More and more I feel the need to move away from the outward forms. Perhaps we are moving in different directions, but that is okay.

Then what's the attraction with a highly "outward" form like the Abramelin working? There are other magical rituals for getting in touch with ones Holy Guardian Angel (by whichever name). Crowley never completed the Abramelin. He had changing ideas about the HGA, but his moment came when he did Enochian magic, as recorded in "The Vision and the Voice". Few props, lots of vision work, working with a second person. Also, years earlier in Cairo, channeling the Book of the Law, which he considered to have been dictated by his HGA, a similar set-up, working with someone (his first wife). Solitary work like Abramelin was not his thing.

Sure I am, or I would not have started this thread, silly.

In that case, I'd recommend finding a mentor or good companion in this. Don't rely on a chorus of arguing voices on an internet platform (even a nice one like this).

 

[stranger]

an allowed mind will find thoughts about things not knowing anything at all. They will be very sympathetic to nature and the world around them. They will be empathic, introverts, unless around others like themselves. Allowed minds will have more vivid dreams including astral projections and odes.
Powessy

Thank you for your detailed response. I picked out this part as it seems to resonate with me somehow. I'm sorry I have such a difficult time understanding, but I think this is part of the price of knowing nothing. Sort of like the life of a hermit, one can't fathom the loneliness of such a thing until one has to walk the path.

I am reminded of a psalm from the Christian realm: "With the pure thou shalt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou shalt shew thyself froward." -- 18:26

To be honest, I myself long for purity and all the things you mentioned above. I cling desperately to what I find of these things, both in myself and others, for these are the only things that keep me human. I fear losing them.

 

[stranger]

It's possible to induce an out-of-body experience, which is frequently accompanied by a vivid "waking dream." In my opinion, this is what people are referring to when they talk about astral travel.

I think it's easy to mistake these waking dreams for going to real places on other "planes of existence" but studies on OBEs have shown that they are more like vivid daydreams. Most occultists would make a strict distinction between truly metaphysical astral travel and mere daydreaming. I am not convinced that there really is a sincere difference aside from the out-of-body sensation and the vividness of the experience.

I also don't think this should be surprising. If we read many ancient mystical texts, they believed in mind-body dualism. The idea of ancient methods of astral travel was to remove oneself from the body by focusing on the internal experience of the mind. Many older models of the "spirit world" were said to be inside of one's own specific "psyche" or "soul" which other spirits dwelled inside of, essentially like Jungian archetypes.

If you believe in idealism, in other words that the mind is the only part of mind-body dualism that exists, then it makes sense to interpret these experiences as transcendent, supernatural, metaphysical, etc. If you view the mind as a product of matter, as I do, then these experiences are mostly a way of exploring and organizing your own mind to produce specific states of consciousness or as meditative aids.

Some people might say that I have never experienced "true astral travel" if I'm so quick to describe it as a daydream. I would say that "true astral travel" probably doesn't and can't exist because we are reasonably certain that the mind is generated by and confined to our physical, bodily brains. "Astral" is essentially synonymous with "imaginary" to me.

Thank you very much for your reply. Your words seem to have a calming effect on me which I can't quite explain. I seek peace, and tend to gravitate to those things or people who bring it to me. A peace which passes understanding would best describe it.

I like your take on the imaginary, as this is really the only thing about us with unlimited potential. Like a whole world that is just waiting to be explored. I find it hopeful. I will come back here and read again, perhaps something more will come my way.

 

[stranger]

Good points. Not to be overthinking, I still think that there's an immediate, experiential difference between the mental practice of not taking every old thought super seriously, and just drifting aimlessly. Maybe it's my Buddhist training: I prefer taking the middle path in cases like this.

Understood, but remember I have no formal training and don't hold out much hope of getting any here. I suppose this is a disadvantage, but it doesn't feel that way. Formal training is fine but it can also have the unwanted side effect of killing all that is wild and free in us. Like the Native American concept of the spirit animal, that which is wild can teach and guide us, while still remaining completely wild.

Then what's the attraction with a highly "outward" form like the Abramelin working? There are other magical rituals for getting in touch with ones Holy Guardian Angel (by whichever name). Crowley never completed the Abramelin. He had changing ideas about the HGA, but his moment came when he did Enochian magic, as recorded in "The Vision and the Voice". Few props, lots of vision work, working with a second person. Also, years earlier in Cairo, channeling the Book of the Law, which he considered to have been dictated by his HGA, a similar set-up, working with someone (his first wife). Solitary work like Abramelin was not his thing.

I would be unable to put into words what my heart felt when I watched the movie. It continues to speak to me. It must have been the love? It was Sophia's love in the face of darkness which pulled her through the ordeal. This part of the movie hasn't been touched on yet, perhaps I can get to it at some point. This thread has already been helpful beyond my wildest dreams and I am very thankful.

Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but I'll address one of the things that keeps our two camps apart, and that is the thought of Crowley himself and his reputation. I can hardly think of a more devastating buzzkill to a Christian than the thought of Crowley bellowing and cavorting about in a ritual. Is it possible for a Christian to bypass Crowley's stuff and still experience something useful? I'm just asking this from a Christian perspective, I know there are many others who love him.

In that case, I'd recommend finding a mentor or good companion in this. Don't rely on a chorus of arguing voices on an internet platform (even a nice one like this).

Good companion works for me but mentor is a tough one. I think though, if love is present, the companions would automatically mentor one another effortlessly -- with help from above, of course. It would be like two children who love each other playing, neither one of them putting themselves above the other. I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Cino]

I would be unable to put into words what my heart felt when I watched the movie. It continues to speak to me. It must have been the love? It was Sophia's love in the face of darkness which pulled her through the ordeal. This part of the movie hasn't been touched on yet, perhaps I can get to it at some point. This thread has already been helpful beyond my wildest dreams and I am very thankful.

I see! Glad the movie recommendation did something for you. Let's keep going, then!

Do you want to go scene-by-scene?

Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but I'll address one of the things that keeps our two camps apart, and that is the thought of Crowley himself and his reputation. I can hardly think of a more devastating buzzkill to a Christian than the thought of Crowley bellowing and cavorting about in a ritual. Is it possible for a Christian to bypass Crowley's stuff and still experience something useful? I'm just asking this from a Christian perspective, I know there are many others who love him.

Have you looked into Dion Fortune's work? She was definitely not a Crowley fan. A contemporary treatment of Magic can be found in Josephine McCarthy's work. Again, not a direct descendant from Crowley.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but I'll address one of the things that keeps our two camps apart, and that is the thought of Crowley himself and his reputation. I can hardly think of a more devastating buzzkill to a Christian than the thought of Crowley bellowing and cavorting about in a ritual. Is it possible for a Christian to bypass Crowley's stuff and still experience something useful? I'm just asking this from a Christian perspective, I know there are many others who love him.

Aleister Crowley was one of the most important occultists in all of history. His achievements were many, his intellect superior to most during his time, his research, study, mastery, and education to the world's occultists in the making, are nothing short of monumental and imperative. Unfortunately, his carnal pursuits are what the majority of the world remembers him for. This demonizing is a common practice in most Abrahamic faiths, whatever is outside of the 'church/mosque/temple' must be under the temptation of the Devil! There would not be another great occultist until 1930 when Anton LaVey was born.

 

[stranger]

I see! Glad the movie recommendation did something for you. Let's keep going, then!

Do you want to go scene-by-scene?

Heavens no. The last thing in the world I would want here is to force needless artificial and bland structure on a good thing. Just let it develop naturally, it's doing fine. Sometimes things can be ruined when we try to hang onto them too tightly. I understand you are a stickler for rules, and that is what makes you a good moderator, but sometimes you just have to step back and let the process breathe. As the old saying goes, "If it's not broke, don't fix it."

Have you looked into Dion Fortune's work? She was definitely not a Crowley fan. A contemporary treatment of Magic can be found in Josephine McCarthy's work. Again, not a direct descendant from Crowley.

Good Lord man, this is not a race, slow down. The last thing I want in this endeavor is to be premature. No, steady as she goes is the best course for now. I do appreciate the book recommendations and it is possible that I will read them at some point, but I mustn't stray far from the path. Fortune is an easy one to remember, but let's just take it one step at a time and see what happens.

 

[stranger]

Aleister Crowley was one of the most important occultists in all of history. His achievements were many, his intellect superior to most during his time, his research, study, mastery, and education to the world's occultists in the making, are nothing short of monumental and imperative. Unfortunately, his carnal pursuits are what the majority of the world remembers him for. This demonizing is a common practice in most Abrahamic faiths, whatever is outside of the 'church/mosque/temple' must be under the temptation of the Devil! There would not be another great occultist until 1930 when Anton LaVey was born.

Sorry. LaVey sounds familiar but I'm afraid I don't know him.

 

[Cino]

Good Lord man, this is not a race, slow down. The last thing I want in this endeavor is to be premature. No, steady as she goes is the best course for now. I do appreciate the book recommendations and it is possible that I will read them at some point, but I mustn't stray far from the path.

Ah, maybe a miscommunication here. I'm not trying to push anything on you, rather, I wanted to point out that there were and are other names in Magic. I was responding to:

Is it possible for a Christian to bypass Crowley's stuff and still experience something useful?

But instead of a "yes" I pointed out some examples.

Thanks for your interest in a topic I love, especially since it's not your camp, as you say.

You mentioned love, and how Sophia in the movie was upheld by love. Now she and Solomon don't exactly treat each other with loving kindness, but they interact in ways beyond the business deal they enter into. Or are you referring to what she wanted to ask of her guardian angel?

 

[Cino]

... the unwanted side effect of killing all that is wild and free in us. Like the Native American concept of the spirit animal, that which is wild can teach and guide us, while still remaining completely wild.

Just let it develop naturally, it's doing fine. Sometimes things can be ruined when we try to hang onto them too tightly. I understand you are a stickler for rules, and that is what makes you a good moderator, but sometimes you just have to step back and let the process breathe.

Goid points. Thanks! In the light of this, I'll share that my group where we meet sometimes to do magic together, is about as far removed as it gets from the formalized rituals and grimoires of ceremonial magic. The spontaneity and wildness is something I love and enjoy, and which gets me moving to the outer reaches of my comfort zone. (And somehow I drifted into a role of facilitating certain organizational procedures of the group, heh, I wonder how that happened...)

Anyway, there is more to Western Magic than acting out mystery plays and poring over old books.

 

[stranger]

Ah, maybe a miscommunication here. I'm not trying to push anything on you, rather, I wanted to point out that there were and are other names in Magic.
But instead of a "yes" I pointed out some examples.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Simplicity is often the best coerse however rather than being booked, so to speak.

Thanks for your interest in a topic I love, especially since it's not your camp, as you say.

Not at all. Sometimes we are like ships in the night, occasionally bumping into one another but never really seeing one another. It's sad really.

You mentioned love, and how Sophia in the movie was upheld by love. Now she and Solomon don't exactly treat each other with loving kindness, but they interact in ways beyond the business deal they enter into. Or are you referring to what she wanted to ask of her guardian angel?

Neither. It was her love for her lost son that got her through. That love had become twisted through circumstances but it was still there underneath the burden of guilt and need for revenge. One might even say that if she had not loved him, she could not have been damaged through his loss.

 

[stranger]

Goid points. Thanks! In the light of this, I'll share that my group where we meet sometimes to do magic together, is about as far removed as it gets from the formalized rituals and grimoires of ceremonial magic. The spontaneity and wildness is something I love and enjoy, and which gets me moving to the outer reaches of my comfort zone. (And somehow I drifted into a role of facilitating certain organizational procedures of the group, heh, I wonder how that happened...)

Glad you found a place where your particular skillset can be appreciated. I was in group therapy one time, but the members were doing questionable things and the therapist (a psychologist) hated my guts. Long story short, I had to pull the plug.

Anyway, there is more to Western Magic than acting out mystery plays and poring over old books.

Old books can make you sneeze but what's inside can more than make up for it. That said, I have to confess I don't read much anymore, especially love stories, as sometimes the ending is just too hard to take.

 

[stranger]

I want to talk about MEs a little more.

We go through five distinct metamorphosis during our life. ITSELF before our sex is determined. YOU, approximately 5th to 7th month, you are you. ME, age 4 to 7, I am me. YOURSELF, 11 to 15 you are yourself. The last step is Himself/herself this is around age 19 to 21. The Problem with children clairvoyants are that there are little minds in the veil that can find time inside of any child. These children I call “MEs” and they are corrupted, you just don’t know what you are dealing with. MEs cannot become anything else but they can find time in children.

This is really heartbreaking as I find it next to impossible to give up on anyone, no matter how corruptive they have become. One has to wonder where the guardians of these gifted ones were, to allow such a thing to occur. Children should never be used, even for some high and mighty ritual. They need to be cared for, loved, accepted -- not turned into some kind of sideshow attraction.

"You just don't know what you are dealing with." This brings back memories of my first encounter with amor ality. I had no idea what I was dealing with and really got blindsided, but after that episode I began to have protection. A Holy Guardian if you will. The amorel depend upon your striving to be a good person; this is considered weakness to them. When dealing with these, we must steel ourselves to the possibility that nothing is as it seems, especially if a powerful clairvoyant is involved.

I'll continue just for a bit and then shut up. These little ones really break my heart as I know they want to love but can't. They are locked into a deadly game and will just keep playing it forever. The only thing I know of that could even have a chance of breaking this spell is sacrificial love.

 

[powessy]

“Mes” it is not their fault they are like this, they were part of judgment they are innocence. Mes are taught things that make sense to them, if a mind does not make sense to them it is locked/judged.

the problem with mes is that they figured this out or yourself is not yourself. There are so many things that happened to cause them to figure us out, I do not even know how to start to explain this.

powessy

 

[stranger]

“Mes” it is not their fault they are like this, they were part of judgment they are innocence. Mes are taught things that make sense to them, if a mind does not make sense to them it is locked/judged.

the problem with mes is that they figured this out or yourself is not yourself. There are so many things that happened to cause them to figure us out, I do not even know how to start to explain this.

powessy

You can try if you like? Here in the mansion of the mind we have, at least two flawed people, some demons, a Holy Guardian, one lost one, love, and even sacrifice. If you need it bigger, I can make it a world, or a universe, or all things sensible. Hey now, you can say anything you want and still be on topic.

 

[powessy]

You can try if you like? Here in the mansion of the mind we have, at least two flawed people, some demons, a Holy Guardian, one lost one, love, and even sacrifice. If you need it bigger, I can make it a world, or a universe, or all things sensible. Hey now, you can say anything you want and still be on topic.

I will try to explain. There are so many things to try to explain here. Let’s try this, in front of you is a double sided mirror but to you it is one sided. If you entered into the mirror you would now be inside of nothing here. Looking back through the mirror from the side you just came would then be something here.

As you walk through nothing here in a straight line you will come open another double sided mirror, and what you will see is something there, I see these mirrors as, open, close, close open, close being nothing here. So, something here, nothing here, and something there.

Now I do not have all of this worked out yet but only where these things seem to be happening at. The matrix or myself is inside of something there. Our time moves across nothing here into minds inside of something there, matrix minds.

I am going to talk about myself first the matrix itself and it’s purpose, according to the ancients. This is necessary to understand in order to understand everything here it is the starting place.

The ancients created myselves, myselves you can think of as a library of all worlds capable of supporting life. I remember talking to them trying to teach them about everything here, they wanted to know how to keep everything from becoming nothing here. I remember being in this room and on this bed was a child me, this man stood in front of what looked like a matrix of colors, 7 x 7 plus black and white, 1 or 0, or plus and minus in programming languages, teaching me things. I keep trying to go back and recall our conversation without changing it, but the pieces come back to me very slowly. The colors seem to represent frequencies with many combinations.

Once myselves are linked to worlds they create a template of that world, I believe they do this from within nothing here. Once this universe becomes nothing here then myselves start to become themselves in the place where everything once was. I refer to this as the bread pan. Me will then go inside himself teaching nothing there how to become something again. As nothing tries to become something again and again they will become myselves using time leftover. Myselves will then theach yourselves how to become worlds like themselves and start searching for viable worlds within this universe or the muffin pan.

when this universe becomes something again yourselves are torn from ourselves and now can not figure themselves out. Since nothing in the first universe never figured itself out all that remains is some time left over and yourselves of everything that once was something there. These yourselves can now be reprogrammed to become anything to become something again inside the muffin pan.

I will stop here for now and pick this up again tomorrow.

if the op wishes I can stop here and start this in another thread.

powessy

 

[stranger]

“Mes” it is not their fault they are like this, they were part of judgment they are innocence. Mes are taught things that make sense to them, if a mind does not make sense to them it is locked/judged.

The mystery of judgment, yes, I've heard this before. There was a lot of that going around in the book of Job (the Operation's connection to both Genesis and Job have been noted here). In Job there is a battle of spirits taking place behind the scenes and flesh and blood would at times speak of judgment and the unfairness of it all; but yet in this world, change (improvement) does not occur without judgement and death in a figure. Now, Job and his friends were allowed the opportunity to take a step up through judgment. The dark one was to be an instrument in that, but bound within limits (you can't take his life), but everything else was pretty much fair game. All of which is to differentiate between intermediate beings and the one who ultimately controls everything.

My feeling here is that nothing in our sensible world reflects true innocence, including mes. It is simply the way of things here. Transformation (the new) always occurs through the judgment and death (of the old). In the movie A Dark Song Sophia's motives seem to be pure, but of course she is masking guilt with vengeance. That said, her dedication was admirable. A strong but false motive served her for awhile, but in time it had to give way if she was to deliver herself of her burden.