The gifts of God: the Heart; the Law, salvation by faith and love.

RJM

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The written text kills, but the spirit gives life
-- 2 Corinthians 3:6
 

RJM

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I appreciate the irony :)
The context:

But our sufficiency is of God; who has also made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life (KJV)
 

Cino

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Thanks for the context.

Not unlike the situation with Zen Buddhism, a tradition of spiritual transmission outside the written or even spoken word - which nevertheless produced massive literature, such as the Shobogenzo.

I simply enjoy the dissonance, in a benevolent, non-judgmental way :)
 
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RJM

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For me it's always the shell of the nut. The shell is necessary, but empty it's just dry wood?
 

Cino

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For me it's always the shell of the nut. The shell is necessary, but empty it's just dry wood?
So are you saying to engage with Paul's writings the way he was engaging with the Hebrew scriptures, as he recommends?
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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The key here is, that to allow our heart to be connected to the Spirit, we must be born again.

We have to embrace life with new eyes and hear with new ears and become One with Christ.

Christ is not a surname of a Man named Jesus, it was the Spirt that gives us light and life.

The heart can also be deceived, love without rational thought, can cloud our vision.

It is Christ that returns, the Holy Spirit and not the flesh as the flesh comes with a New Name, a New Name that Jesus said he would write upon us, but only those that receive it will embrace it.

Isaiah 62:2
"The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the Lord will designate"

Revelation 2:17
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it"

This is where our heart can become our downfall, we can become lovers of a Name and forget to look for the Spirit that is Christ.

Revelation 3:12
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."

It is only fair that I offer that Christ the Son, is now Baha'u'llah the Father, Christ means Annointed One, Baha'u'llah means the 'Glory of God'

So our heart can embrace that same Holy Spirit, but it will take new eyes to see and new ears to hear what the Spirit said to the Churches, and here it is, all readily compiled in "The Summons of the Lord of Hosts".

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/summons-lord-hosts/

Of course all IMHO

Regards Tony
 

Cino

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So how does such a radical call to seeking an immediate, unmediated relationship with the spirit described in this text - how does that get harmonized with the liturgy, where bible passages are read in a very formal setting, very much like the synagogue service criticised by Paul in this chapter?
 

RJM

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So how does such a radical call to seeking an immediate, unmediated relationship with the spirit described in this text - how does that get harmonized with the liturgy, where bible passages are read in a very formal setting, very much like the synagogue service criticised by Paul in this chapter?
I know

There are the keepers of the flame, the monks and priests, who chant the words day after day, in order to preserve the scriptures. The words are necessary, they cannot be changed to suit current trends -- the words of the scriptures are the shell of the nut, unchanged for millennia. That is the function of monks.*

Otherwise it can just be empty repetition.

*Nuns too, of course
 
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RJM

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What the individual takes away from the service is personal. The same words can convey different things on different days. I believe it's good to attend formal temple services, of my own religion, but not to think attending and repeating the formal prayers is itself the key to paradise.

Like everything else, it is subtle and shaded, I suppose. No simple answer to fit everybody?

Imo grace is given from above. I can only ask God. It is for God to bestow

(edited)
 
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