There’s no love or humanity from this shadowy character – no magnetism or attraction, no enlightenment or wisdom -- no luminosity or peace or comfort. The nature of Christ is only found in the New Testament
Try the Trinity.
- Thread starter OupaPiet
- Start date
Beware of what?
I said "I assume that you agree with the following..
The focus of the Council of Nicaea was the nature of the Son of God and his precise relationship to God the Father."
This was in the 4th. century, and those in authority were far from silent.
We should all be free to believe what makes sense to us, unless it involves harming others without good reason..
The ten commandments take precedence over beliefs about 'the nature of the Son', imo.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
There are reasons that Jesus taught in parables. Even the enemy knows the scriptures and I have discovered it is true in my walk that the deep meaning is spiritually discerned. I have intimate experiences of the living word being opened up and revealing it's deeper truths by the Holy Spirit. For us the trinity is absolute truth.
The Holy Spirit is a person who points us to Jesus while Jesus points us to our Father in heaven. The three are distinct and separate to believers of the trinity. We can be questioned on proof in the word and give you scripture that proves to US the truth of it.. but if you aren't spiritually discerning how can you believe by Faith the truth we have accepted by FAITH.
It's not a secret how to come to this faith. We were commissioned to share the good news to the whole world and it really is a simple as blessed are those that believe without seeing. It's as simple as believing in Him and being born again the spirit. Coming to Him as children without the hardness and unbelief of adults.
Remember as a child you believed everything your parents told you and then your worldview changed as you grew into adulthood and formed your own opinions and beliefs.. coming to Him as a child and believing everything He tells you. That's how our faith is formed and sustained fed by a lifetime of experiences and validations that feed that faith. It's like a plant that is watered with love.. it blooms and grows.
It's a vain attempt to try to reason out of us our belief in the Trinity.
The Holy Spirit is a person who points us to Jesus while Jesus points us to our Father in heaven. The three are distinct and separate to believers of the trinity. We can be questioned on proof in the word and give you scripture that proves to US the truth of it.. but if you aren't spiritually discerning how can you believe by Faith the truth we have accepted by FAITH.
It's not a secret how to come to this faith. We were commissioned to share the good news to the whole world and it really is a simple as blessed are those that believe without seeing. It's as simple as believing in Him and being born again the spirit. Coming to Him as children without the hardness and unbelief of adults.
Remember as a child you believed everything your parents told you and then your worldview changed as you grew into adulthood and formed your own opinions and beliefs.. coming to Him as a child and believing everything He tells you. That's how our faith is formed and sustained fed by a lifetime of experiences and validations that feed that faith. It's like a plant that is watered with love.. it blooms and grows.
It's a vain attempt to try to reason out of us our belief in the Trinity.
But Trinitarian Christians do not accept there is a conflict.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Please reread your post that I was commenting on as you said we should beware and it would be better to remain silent.
In my faith we believe by the teachings that if a person breaks one of the ten commandments they are guilty of breaking them all. Our thought life alone causes us to break these commandments. We cannot be good enough to earn salvation because of our basic human nature. That was the purpose of Jesus coming in the flesh and providing the law in the first place. We cannot get to the Father without Him. The ten commandments do NOT take precedence over the Son. Imo
If I believe the Qur'an is the inerrant word of God, then whatever does not agree with the Qur'an, simply cannot be the truth. Wherever the New Testament is at odds with the Qur'an, those parts of the NT are at fault.
Not really .. I am just expressing my opinion.It's a vain attempt to try to reason out of us our belief in the Trinity.
Welcome back.
I hope you intend to stay for a while and had a good break.
..but yes, the Qur'an is authoritative for a Muslim.
I think it is a shame that doctrine causes schism amongst believers.
I see that it started around the 4th. century, when the Roman state became involved.
It Islam is false, that does not automatically make Orthodox Christianity true.
..so the argument about the nature of the Son of God and his precise relationship to God the Father, is more important than righteousness?
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
- Matthew 5 -
Well the three are entirely different perspectives.
Arian believed Jesus is a supernatural being, and God inasmuch as God has empowered him with divine attributes;
JW's believe Jesus is some kind of supernatural being, but not God;
Unitarians believe that Jesus is human, but are ambivalent as regards his supernatural status.
No.
You seem to suppose that Arians do not believe Jesus is God, or believe in the Trinity – you've argued about Artians v Trinitarians, when in fact both sides are Trinitarian.
And it is you, a Muslim, who asserts etc., etc.
How many times do I have to repeat this?
Arius believed Jesus is begotten, 'before time and the ages', asserting 'there was a time when he was not'.
The orthodox belief was that because Jesus is begotten, 'before time and the ages', there was no 'time' when he was not.
Arius proposed Jesus is divine, but not of the same divine substance/nature as the Father. This would seem to imply a secondary order of divinity, a lesser God, and that is a gateway to binitarian polytheism.
Well both Arius and his supporters said so, so we argue from evidence.
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Right, so Arians consider themselves monotheists.
No, I wouldn't say so..
If somebody suggested to me that a man is divine and is "of the same substance" as God [whatever that is],
I would disagree also.
It all hinges on the word "divine", as meaning God.
Was Moses divine?
I would imagine that many people would say that he was, but that does not mean that Moses is God incarnate.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Acknowledging that we cannot be righteous in the eyes of God. We are all sinners. Acknowledging that Jesus IS our righteousness. He imparted His Righteousness to us and took OUR sin on Himself.
Philippians 3
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Indeed it is, but none are proof against that. We have our schisms and denominations, you have yours.
No, sadly there were disputes before Constantine got involved.
Marcionists and Donatists were 2nd century. Monarchianism 2nd/3rd, Montanists early 4th.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I think we both know that these pages upon pages of dialogue are an attempt to prove which belief is the correct belief . The burden of proof is on you as we are defending our belief in the Trinity. The authority on which we defend the trinity is the bible and that is what is under attack. I've posted old and new testament scriptures as proof of the diety of Christ in scripture that never gets answered as another is used out of context. This happens frequently in secular courts of law. C'est la vie!
LOL, all Christians consider themselves monotheists!
OK. I would. I'd like to see how you explain two different divine natures is not polytheism.
Do you understand hypostatic union?
No, it hinges on more than that.
All the law and the prophets of God, hang and depend on the two greatest commandments. If we could obey just these two commandments in the spirit of the way they were given, we would not need any other commandments.
That is all part of the "tapestry" .. Christians of various beliefs were persecuted by The Romans,
as were Jews generally.
It was when the church became part of the state, that schism became more ugly.
As you say, all Christians consider themselves monotheist.
..and that is why I say that Arians considered "the Father" to be God.
Their argument is that Jesus is "not equal to the Father".
You are just arguing that they saw both Father and Son as "God".
I see that their declaration is that Jesus is not "God" in the same way as the Father.
Looks like a communication issue, to me.