Man? Humans? Pinacle of creation? LOL

But if all the bears were taken away, or all the deer, or all the frogs, or all the turtles, or all the gophers, or all the giraffes, or all the armadillos, or if all the bison were taken away, life on earth would still flourish. So would humanity. That is how insignificant four legged creatures are.

If people disappeared, there would be no one to save rhinos stuck in mudholes, dogs who fell through ice into freezing lakes, cattle going through difficult birthing, baby bunnies whose mother was eaten by a wolf, birds with broken wings, horses with broken legs, and so much more.

Humans are more helpful than turtles and eagles and dandelions and poison ivy and cottonwood combined. Humans are indispensable.

Collectively humans appreciate all animals, all plants, and systematically continually improve their environment and protect them. No horse does that. No radish does that. Only humans. There is much to appreciate about humanity. One foul human doesn't make the whole flock bad.

Humans are the best of creatures. The Circle of Life doesn't get to shed spokes at will.
Welcome to the forum, Sky Milinet. Do we have just one foul human? All species exist for their time. There will sure be a time when humans will not exist but life may continue on earth for a billion year. That is the limit of life on earth before the sun dries it out.
 
Indispensable to what exactly?
I don't know. I suppose indispensible to each other and possibly to whatever the Grand Purpose of the Universe is. That wasn't my point.

My point wasn't "to", but "for". A relation 'to' might be for the purpose of possession or self gratification.

The examples I gave were of the nature of pragmatic benefit, specifically for others. For setting broken bones and for providing fodder to a starving herd, humans are indispensable. For building rockets to other planets, composing music that soothes the savage beasts, for getting egos stroked, restocking lakes with fish, limiting the spread of forest fires and caring for animals injured by them, for genetically modifying food for some purpose whether benign or nefarious, nurturing a species of shrinking numbers from the brink of extinction, whether peregrine falcons (in danger) or the Great Barrier Reef (not in danger) or white rhinos (in big danger) or Salt Creek Tiger Beetles (in grave danger), I believe in my heart of hearts, for those things, humans are indispensible, fish and fowl are not. Useful and purposeful functions. Active, improving things rather than passively standing by, mooing or snorting or howling. It's just what I believe. Not a law or dogma, just my belief.
 
Welcome to the forum, Sky Milinet. Do we have just one foul human? All species exist for their time. There will sure be a time when humans will not exist but life may continue on earth for a billion year. That is the limit of life on earth before the sun dries it out.
Okay. It would be a pity, though, if before one thousandth of that time will have passed, mankind would not have brought life, including its own, to other planets. In a billion years, which is for me an unimaginably huge number of days and nights and generations and incredible discoveries and never imagined technologies, maybe even to another galaxy.

If physics and other, material sciences make little or no progress over the next one thousand times one thousand times one thousand years, then all might be lost. But if enough progress is made, even just a little teensy each year, accumulating over the centuries into marvelous advances, we might escape the proposed, cold, insufferable death of our hoary sun - or rejuvenate it! For ... with strange eons, even death may die. (I mean, of course, stellar death, not human death).
 
Well, sorry @Sky Milinet but none of that makes sense to me. While undoubtedly some people assist animals, the presence of humanity has been more of a curse for the animal kingdom than anything else. Beyond that, we evolved in a particular way and it is hard to see how it could have gone otherwise. We humans just got lucky.
 
At least 680 vertebrate species had been driven to extinction since the 16th century and more than 9% of all domesticated breeds of mammals used for food and agriculture had become extinct by 2016, with at least 1,000 more breeds still threatened.

“Ecosystems, species, wild populations, local varieties and breeds of domesticated plants and animals are shrinking, deteriorating or vanishing. The essential, interconnected web of life on Earth is getting smaller and increasingly frayed,” said Prof. Settele. “This loss is a direct result of human activity and constitutes a direct threat to human well-being in all regions of the world.”



 
Well, sorry @Sky Milinet but none of that makes sense to me. While undoubtedly some people assist animals, the presence of humanity has been more of a curse for the animal kingdom than anything else.
It doesn't make sense!? Wow. That's remarkable.

Anyway, I was not addressing the overall affect of one species on others, but on the relative indispensibilty of kingdoms in relation to one species, and of the alleged dispensibility of one species in relation to other kingdoms combined. And I was specifically answering a question about ways that humans might be indispensable. There is a balance in nature. I disagree with your opinion that:
the presence of humanity has been more of a curse for the animal kingdom than anything else
I was responding to the remark in the opening post, belittling one particular species out of all others, which remark relied on a fallacy of generalization.

I could say black widow spiders, crocodiles, and mosquitoes have been "more if a curse", too, if I failed to recognize their positive roles. This remark might be premature, as I am not certain I have understood your use of "curse". After all is said and done, however, there is a balance in Nature.

we evolved in a particular way and it is hard to see how it could have gone otherwise.
That is sadly unimaginative. You would profit from reading Olaf Stapeldon's "Starmaker" or perhaps William Tenn's 'Brooklyn Project'. There was a conference on xenobiology several years ago with presentations on alternative biochemistries. I don't have that at hand, but the propositions were stimulating. Also, Analog Science Fact & Fiction (or was it vice versa¿), back when Joseph Campbell was editor, published many stories of other evolutions.

We humans just got lucky.
Luck is neither an agent nor an instrument, so it plays no role in natural relationships.
 
Okay. It would be a pity, though, if before one thousandth of that time will have passed, mankind would not have brought life, including its own, to other planets. In a billion years, which is for me an unimaginably huge number of days and nights and generations and incredible discoveries and never imagined technologies, maybe even to another galaxy.

If physics and other, material sciences make little or no progress over the next one thousand times one thousand times one thousand years, then all might be lost. But if enough progress is made, even just a little teensy each year, accumulating over the centuries into marvelous advances, we might escape the proposed, cold, insufferable death of our hoary sun - or rejuvenate it! For ... with strange eons, even death may die. (I mean, of course, stellar death, not human death).
You see, the earliest fish happened only about 350 million year ago (Carboniferous era) out of the 4.78 billion years of Earth. Since then, many species have come and gone. How long do you think humans will last? Perhaps we will be able to establish colonies on Mars, but we cannot take our future billions to Mars. I do not think we can go to a planet of any other star in the Milky Way galaxy, so talking about other galaxies is Star Trek, the distances make it impossible.

It will be a fiery death when the sun starts turning into a red-dwarf in about a billion year's time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#After_core_hydrogen_exhaustion). Sun would not have a cold death, for around the same time when the sun becomes a full-fledged red dwarf, in five billion years, the Andromeda galaxy is likely to smash into us (i.e., the Milky Way galaxy).

"The Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are expected to collide in around 4–5 billion years, merging to potentially form a giant elliptical galaxy."
So, banish the pride that we are humans. We are not something other than animals. And we need to conduct our affairs more wisely. And we have a time-limit to our existence on earth. No God can save us from it.
 
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You see, the earliest fish happened only about 350 million year ago (Carboniferous era) out of the 4.78 billion years of Earth. Since then, many species have come and gone. How long do you think humans will last? Perhaps we will be able to establish colonies on Mars, but we cannot take our future billions to Mars. I do not think we can go to a planet of any other star in the Milky Way galaxy, so talking about other galaxies is Star Trek, the distances make it impossible.

It will be a fiery death when the sun starts turning into a red-dwarf in about a billion year's time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#After_core_hydrogen_exhaustion). Sun would not have a cold death, for around the same time when the sun becomes a full-fledged red dwarf, in five billion years, the Andromeda galaxy is likely to smash into us (i.e., the Milky Way galaxy).

"The Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies are expected to collide in around 4–5 billion years, merging to potentially form a giant elliptical galaxy."
So, banish the pride that we are humans. We are not something other than animals. And we need to conduct our affairs more wisely. And we have a time-limit to our existence on earth. No God can save us from it.
Obviously, I wholeheartedly disagree. Not being an atheist, and believing humans are more than animals, I do not share your sense of hopelessness and despair. But to each his own.
 
Finally, I am confident that no one living today, including my own hyperpositive expansive openminded self has any better chance at correctly predicting human conditions and capabilities as they will be one big billion years from now than our unimaginative protoancestors of one billion years in the past could have come within a billion metaphorical miles of imagining today's primeval world. The differences are and will be cosmic.
 
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Where is hopelessness? It is acceptance of facts, just as in case of death. How does false hope help?
You really believe you are regurgitating facts without any interpretation of the facts whatsoever?
 
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You see, the earliest fish happened only about 350 million year ago (Carboniferous era) out of the 4.78 billion years of Earth. Since then, many species have come and gone. How long do you think humans will last?
This makes me think of this:
 
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