THE SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS

[The Anointed]

Where did Herod the Great slaughter the young boys 2 years and below? In the area around Bethlehem of Judah as is the tradition according to St Helena the mother of the founder of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, or in the area around the Bethlehem of Galilee as proven by the Holy Scriptures?

 

[Thomas]

Which do you think it was?

 

[The Anointed]

Which do you think it was?

I don't THINK it was in Galilee. The bible reveals clearly that it WAS in Galilee and not in southern Judah as taught by the Roman church.

 

[wil]

Again, a salacious titillating title and a question that he has an answer for instead of posing it as a thought sets up a trap ready to pounce.

Will he choose to change his ways and become an active member of our forum, or just stay a troll? Asking for a friend

 

[The Anointed]

Again, a salacious titillating title and a question that he has an answer for instead of posing it as a thought sets up a trap ready to pounce.

Of course I have the answer to the question I posed. In a previous post I said that I have been studying the scriptures for some 60 years and I visit the religious forums to empty my cup, in the hope that I might refill it from information I might receive from the students of Christian and Hebrew religious literature.

Will he choose to change his ways and become an active member of our forum, or just stay a troll? Asking for a friend

I'm not asking for friends wil. I'M asking for spiritual food, which appears to be in short supply in this particular forum.

And pray tell wil, how does one download the information gained over many years, when that is frowned upon by certain individuals on this forum.

Paul said that there must be differences between believers, in order to see who is correct. Are you a protector of those in the wrong wil, dont you want to see those who are in the wrong proven scripturally to be in the wrong and put on the new pathway to truth.

So many Christians still believe the teaching of their Saint Helena that the wise men visited the baby Jesus while in the manger in Bethlehem of Judah, instead of the home of Joseph and Mary in Nazareth.

Now you might ask, 'does it really matter if the wise men paid homage to the baby Jesus in Bethlehem or Nazareth', NO. But what does matter is that the spiritual guides who are supposed to be leading God's children to the truths as revealed in the word of God, don't have a clue.

The same as those of the Jewish faith who haven't a clue as to, in what form the cherubs 'The Chariots of God' are depicted in the Holy of Holies and the lid of the covenant box, when the answer is there right before their eyes in their Holy Scriptures, and YES wil, I know the answer to that also. And once they discover how the heavenly chariots are depicted, they might then receive more of the Hidden Manna.

 

[wil]

Of course I have the answer to the question I posed.

Then why did you ask it?

Did someone hire you to give us
A quiz?

 

[The Anointed]

Then why did you ask it?

Did someone hire you to give us
A quiz?

Who do you think would spend the money that I would demand to give you lot a quize?

And in answer to your question, 'Then why did you ask it' I asked the question hoping to begin a discussion with those who still believe their Saint Helena in order to see which is correct. If they can prove scripturally that Herod slaughtered the innocents around Bethlehem of Judea, then I will have been proven wrong and gained knowledge that I didn't know existed, but if I am correct, will they accept the truth or cling to their belief even knowing it is wrong.

 

[wil]

There ya go, just state your belief, rather than the test, if anyone is interested in discussing agreement, nuance or disagreement they will pipe up, we ain't challenging every notion around here, our goal is to get along

 

[The Anointed]

There ya go, just state your belief, rather than the test, if anyone is interested in discussing agreement, nuance or disagreement they will pipe up, we ain't challenging every notion around here, our goal is to get along

How do YOU get along with someone who would preach to your children, from your bible, the opposite to what your God has revealed to be the truth? Do you suck up to them and refuse to defend the truth, just so you can get along with those who are corrupting the words of your Lord.

 

[Thomas]

How do YOU get along with someone who would preach to your children, from your bible, the opposite to what your God has revealed to be the truth? Do you suck up to them and refuse to defend the truth, just so you can get along with those who are corrupting the words of your Lord.

OK. Then I repeat the original question: Which do you think it was – Judah or Galilee?

 

[The Anointed]

OK. Then I repeat the original question: Which do you think it was – Judah or Galilee?

And you will receive the same answer as you received in post #3

 

[Thomas]

And you will receive the same answer as you received in post #3

OK. Not much of an answer, but without further explanation, I'll probably stick with the Synoptic account. It's not a deal-breaker, really.

 

[Thomas]

As an aside, the 'Slaughter of the Innocents' variously lists 14,000 Holy Innocents (Greek) 64,000 (Syrian), 144,000 (Egyptian) and that it took place on 29 December.

Critics point out there's no record to authenticate Scripture.

But then, as Bethlehem was not a major location, there's no way it could be so many – estimated numbers count no more than 40. A lot, but like the slaughter of the bastard sons of Robert Targaryen in Game of Thrones (just got round to watching this!), not the worst thing Herod/the Lannisters did, nor the most memorable.

 

[The Anointed]

As an aside, the 'Slaughter of the Innocents' variously lists 14,000 Holy Innocents (Greek) 64,000 (Syrian), 144,000 (Egyptian) and that it took place on 29 December.

Critics point out there's no record to authenticate Scripture.

But then, as Bethlehem was not a major location, there's no way it could be so many – estimated numbers count no more than 40. A lot, but like the slaughter of the bastard sons of Robert Targaryen in Game of Thrones (just got round to watching this!), not the worst thing Herod/the Lannisters did, nor the most memorable.

But the last thing of note that he did before he died in 4 B.C., after a failed suicide attempt which, I believe was an option given to him by Augustus because of the riots he caused around Sepphorus, Bethlehem and Nazareth.

 

[Soul]

Where did Herod the Great slaughter the young boys 2 years and below? In the area around Bethlehem of Judah as is the tradition according to St Helena the mother of the founder of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, or in the area around the Bethlehem of Galilee as proven by the Holy Scriptures?

In Scripture, we read that Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judah, or Bethlehem Ephrathah (Matt. 2:1-2). Later Jesus lived in Nazareth which is in Galilee (Matt. 2:23). According to a woman named Maria Valtorta, who is believed to have received from Jesus visions of scenes from His life on Earth, including those found in the four Gospels, and wrote them down at His request, on January 8th, 1945 learned that the real number of babies killed was thirty-two, of which eighteen in the actual town of Bethlehem [in Judah] and fourteen in the nearby country. Also six baby girls were slaughtered as the hired cut-throats could not tell them from baby boys because they were dressed alike, and also because of the darkness and their hurry to kill. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I)

 

[Faithfulservant]

I didn't know who Maria Valtorta was so I looked her up.. I watched a few you tube videos of readings of her memoir. I'm not strictly opposed to proohesy from Jesus but they have to be subject to scripture. I'm not sure how Catholics respond to her but as a Protestant I would have to say that I can't receive her message as divinely inspired. Thank you for sharing. I always appreciate learning new things from people here.

@Thomas can you give some insight on how this is received by the Catholic Church?

Welcome!

 

[Soul]

I'm not strictly opposed to proohesy from Jesus but they have to be subject to scripture.

What do you mean by "subject to Scripture?"

I'm not sure how Catholics respond to her but as a Protestant I would have to say that I can't receive her message as divinely inspired.

You didn't mention why. Care to share?

@Thomas can you give some insight on how this is received by the Catholic Church?

According to the Catholic Church, Maria Valtorta's writings are permissible for publication, reading, and promoting. They leave it up to each individual to decide if it's of supernatural origin and for their spiritual benefit or not.

Thank you for sharing. I always appreciate learning new things from people here.

My pleasure!

 

[Faithfulservant]

What do you mean by "subject to Scripture?"

14 Top Bible Verses About False Teachers - Scripture Warnings

Correct and sound doctrine is crucial to salvation and growth in spiritual maturity. The following Bible verses will help you determine whether someone is teaching false doctrine and how you should handle the deceptive teacher.

www.biblestudytools.com

Rather than post a litany of scriptures I just googled a list for reference. My belief is that any new revelation ended with the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

You didn't mention why. Care to share?

As a Protestant we don't believe that the mother Mary is anything other than blessed to be chosen to carry our Savior in her womb. We respect and honor her for that but that is all. She has no other special position as co redemptress or that she hears prayers. The video I watched Maria specifically said the Jesus told her He sent His mother to us. It would be like placing Abraham the Father of Israel in a divine capacity or even Moses who led Israel out of captivity. Mary was human and died a human death She is absent from the biblical record following her final appearance in the book of Acts. and no reliable historical record exists of her after that.

I want it to be known that I do not judge others on their beliefs. My beliefs are my beliefs and that is all. I speak for no one else and scripture is the authority on which I base my beliefs.

According to the Catholic Church, Maria Valtorta's writings are permissible for publication, reading, and promoting. They leave it up to each individual to decide if it's of supernatural origin and for their spiritual benefit or not.

Good to know. I couldn't find a consistent opinion on that which is why I asked @Thomas as he is a scholar and I respect his knowledge on all things Catholic.

My pleasure!

 

[Soul]

The video I watched Maria specifically said the Jesus told her He sent His mother to us. It would be like placing Abraham the Father of Israel in a divine capacity or even Moses who led Israel out of captivity.

What do you mean by "divine capacity?"

My belief is that any new revelation ended with the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

:]

Jesus was aware there'd be people who say that, which is why He dictated the following to Maria Valtorta on April 28th, 1947:

"[...] Further: if you object that the revelation was closed with the last Apostle, and there was nothing further to add, because the same Apostle says in Revelation: "If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book" (22: 1 8) and that can be understood for all the Revelation, the last completion of which is the Revelation by John, I reply to you that with this work no addition was made to revelation, but only the gaps, brought about by natural causes and by supernatural will, were filled in.

And if I wanted to take pleasure in restoring the picture of My Divine Charity as a restorer of mosaics does replacing the tesserae damaged or missing, reinstating the mosaic in its complete beauty, and I have decided to do it in this century in which mankind is hurling itself towards the Abyss of darkness and horror, can you forbid Me from doing so? Can you perhaps say that you do not need it, you whose spirits are dull, weak, deaf to lights, voices and invitations from Above?

You ought really to bless Me for increasing with new lights the light that you have and that is no longer sufficient for you to "see" your Savior. To see the Way, the Truth and the Life, and feel that spiritual emotion of the just of My time rise in you, attaining through this knowledge a renewal of your spirits in love, that would be your salvation, because it is an ascent towards perfection.

I do not say you are "dead", but sleeping, drowsy. Like plants during their winter sleep. The divine Sun gives you its refulgence. Awake and bless the Sun that gives you itself, receive it with joy that It may warm you, from the surface to deep inside you, it may rouse you and cover you with flowers and fruits.

Rise. Come to My Gift. [...]" (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V)

Good to know. I couldn't find a consistent opinion on that which is why I asked @Thomas as he is a scholar and I respect his knowledge on all things Catholic.

As a Catholic myself, and who's been familiar with Maria Valtorta for over a decade, as well as owns all of her writings, I can help with any questions.

 

[Faithfulservant]

What do you mean by "divine capacity?"

Like I said co redeemer or that they hear the prayers of the saints. Jesus is our only Redeemer and we need no other. God hears our prayers as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. We don't see any of the apostles praying to anyone else.

Jesus was aware there'd be people who say that, which is why He dictated the following to Maria Valtorta on April 28th, 1947:

Jesus' ministry was witnessed by many people even His visitation after His resurrection and His following ascension. A red flag is one in which one person says Jesus told me Jesus revealed to me and it's not backed by scriptural evidence. I personally would not receive such a dictation as inspired.

"[...] Further: if you object that the revelation was closed with the last Apostle, and there was nothing further to add, because the same Apostle says in Revelation: "If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book" (22: 1 8) and that can be understood for all the Revelation, the last completion of which is the Revelation by John, I reply to you that with this work no addition was made to revelation, but only the gaps, brought about by natural causes and by supernatural will, were filled in.

I can understand that no new revelation was offered and the filling in of gaps would be acceptable if not the bit about sending Mary. That part was a deal breaker for me.

s a Catholic myself, and who's been familiar with Maria Valtorta for over a decade, as well as owns all of her writings, I can help with any questions.

I love my Catholic brothers and sisters. We are of the body of Christ. We may disagree on doctrine but we all serve the same God in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. I do not see division in our faiths just a different set of beliefs. Just like a body that has different body parts that function to serve the whole so is the body of Christ.

A house divided cannot stand.