Holy Spirit and Gabriel

Thomas

Thomas

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I was looking on a wiki page and saw this:
"In Islam, the Holy Spirit is believed to be the Angel Gabriel."
(The reference cited: Khan, Muhammad Muhsin; Al-Hilali, Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din (2020-06-16). Interpretation of the Meaning of the Qur'an.)
That's not right, is it?
 
Thomas said:
I was looking on a wiki page and saw this:
"In Islam, the Holy Spirit is believed to be the Angel Gabriel."
(The reference cited: Khan, Muhammad Muhsin; Al-Hilali, Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din (2020-06-16). Interpretation of the Meaning of the Qur'an.)
That's not right, is it?
Click to expand...
In the Baha'i Writings this has been explained as the Symbol of the Holy Spirit by which Muhammad received His Revelation from God. Each Messenger is Annointed with the Holy Spirit and the Message they received is recorded symbolically in various ways, here is a couple of explanations from Baha'i sources.

"...It was on that occasion that the "Most Great Spirit," as designated by Bahá’u’lláh Himself, revealed itself to Him, in the form of a "Maiden," and bade Him "lift up" His "voice between earth and heaven" -- that same Spirit which, in the Zoroastrian, the Mosaic, the Christian, and Muhammadan Dispensations, had been respectively symbolized by the "Sacred Fire," the "Burning Bush," the "Dove," and the "Angel Gabriel." Shoghi Effendi, Messages to America, p. 100

"...In the Holy Writings of former religions we read how Moses heard the voice of God through the Burning Bush or how the Dove descended upon Christ or how Muhammad received His Revelation through the Angel Gabriel. All these are different symbols of the same entity, the Holy Spirit, which acts as an intermediary between God and His Manifestations." Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 3, p. 144

It indicates that an 'Annointed Ones' are the carriers of the Holy Spirit, and that humanity only experience of the Holy Spirit is via the Messengers.

That is why Jesus, as the Christ, offered we must be born again, we must be born from the Human Spirit in to the Holy Spirit that was the Annointed Jesus, as Christ, the Son of God.

It is only the Messengers that are the Essence of the Holy Spirit. No other human directly receives the holy spirit. Thus the reason for the warning of many false prophets.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
In the Baha'i Writings this has been explained as the Symbol of the Holy Spirit by which Muhammad received His Revelation from God. Each Messenger is Annointed with the Holy Spirit and the Message they received is recorded symbolically in various ways, here is a couple of explanations from Baha'i sources.
Click to expand...
This is closer to the Christian Tradition, that Angels are messengers of the Divine, but not themselves divine, being created natures. Nor, however, do we necessarily believe they are annointed. The angel at the annunciation makes a clear distinction between 'himself' and the Holy Spirit.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
It is only the Messengers that are the Essence of the Holy Spirit. No other human directly receives the holy spirit. Thus the reason for the warning of many false prophets.
Click to expand...
The not what Jews or Christians believe, however. Angels are not the 'Essence of the Holy Spirit' – the Holy Spirit of God is God.

The Holy Spirit of God is immanently near to and at times present in the soul (cf Romans 8:15 and Galatians 4:6).
 
A big one for me is that according to the bible blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. Or that you can grieve the Holy Spirit. Or that our bodies are the temple of God because the Holy Spirit dwells within us.

Edit to add that we also believe that that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer spoke of as what needs to be removed for the rise of the man of perdition.
 
Faithfulservant said:
A big one for me is that according to the bible blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin.
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The Father's believe that the Spirit reveals the Son, the Son reveals the Father – there is a strong scriptural foundation for this which you will of course know.

I read the one unpardonable sin – blasphemy against the Holy Spirit – as the rejection of the love, mercy and forgiveness of God – in effect it's unpardonable because the sinner rejects the pardon, not because God refuses to forgive.

My abiding hope is that as much as we may slam the door in God's face, He's always there should we choose to open it ...
 
Thomas said:
Angels are created – I think Islam believes the same
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Yes..

Thomas said:
– is the Holy Spirit then a created nature?
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If we are all speaking about the same "Holy Spirit", then maybe.
I do not find the meaning of "Holy Spirit" to be categorically defined.

Naturally, I do not see it to be "God", or a part of God.
..well, no more than our own "spirit" can be called part of God.

Is the Holy Spirit Divine?
Yes, in the sense that our spirits are not. :)
Angels are Divine, in the sense that they do not disobey God.
Jesus is Divine in the same way, imo.
 
Thomas said:
The Father's believe that the Spirit reveals the Son, the Son reveals the Father – there is a strong scriptural foundation for this which you will of course know.

I read the one unpardonable sin – blasphemy against the Holy Spirit – as the rejection of the love, mercy and forgiveness of God – in effect it's unpardonable because the sinner rejects the pardon, not because God refuses to forgive.

My abiding hope is that as much as we may slam the door in God's face, He's always there should we choose to open it ...
Click to expand...
I agree on all parts . My assertion is that the Holy Spirit could not be an Angel according to the bible as an Angel would not have the same claims as I listed.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Is the Holy Spirit Divine?
Yes, in the sense that our spirits are not. :)
Angels are Divine, in the sense that they do not disobey God.
Jesus is Divine in the same way, imo.
Click to expand...
According to the bible Angels can and have disobeyed God as it states 1/3 fell from heaven with Lucifer.
 
Revelation 12:9 (ESV)
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Revelation 12:3–4 (ESV)
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give …



Isaiah 14:12–15 (ESV)
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,

O Day Star, son of Dawn!

How you are cut down to the ground,

you who laid the nations low!

13 You said in your heart,

‘I will ascend to heaven;

above the stars of God

I will set my throne on high;

I will sit on the mount of assembly

in the
 
Faithfulservant said:
According to the bible Angels can and have disobeyed God as it states 1/3 fell from heaven with Lucifer.
Click to expand...

Through the New Testament, demons appear 55 times, 46 times in reference to demonic possession or exorcisms. Some old English Bible translations such as King James Version do not have the word 'demon' in their vocabulary and translate it as 'devil'.
...
Because of references to Satan as the lord of demons, and evil angels of Satan throughout the New Testament, other scholars identified fallen angels with demons.
Demon - Wikipedia

Almighty God knows best whether these "fallen angels" are of the same nature as other angels.
There seems to be varying opinion on this subject, but satan is most certainly a demon/devil.
In Islam, angels are made of light, and do God's bidding .. whereas satan is of the jinn, who are made of smokeless fire,
and have a similar nature to ourselves. i.e. have a free-will, and capable of righteousness and fall from grace
 
Thomas said:
This is closer to the Christian Tradition, that Angels are messengers of the Divine, but not themselves divine, being created natures. Nor, however, do we necessarily believe they are annointed. The angel at the annunciation makes a clear distinction between 'himself' and the Holy Spirit.


The not what Jews or Christians believe, however. Angels are not the 'Essence of the Holy Spirit' – the Holy Spirit of God is God.

The Holy Spirit of God is immanently near to and at times present in the soul (cf Romans 8:15 and Galatians 4:6).
Click to expand...
Thank you Thomas, but please note I have not offerd that the angles are Annointed. It is the Messengers that are 'Annointed'. That is the meaning of 'Christ', Jesus was an "Annointed One", annointed of the Holy Spirit, no other humans are.

Baha'u'llah has given further detail on the Holy Spirit, so I will see it in a different light. Baha'u'llah offered it is the source and power of the Manifestations of God, itself created of God the 'Most Great Spirit'. I can find those quotes, but here is one that shows the light I see it in.

"....Likewise the Holy Spirit is the very cause of the life of man; without the Holy Spirit he would have no intellect, he would be unable to acquire his scientific knowledge by which his great influence over the rest of creation is gained. The illumination of the Holy Spirit gives to man the power of thought, and enables him to make discoveries by which he bends the laws of nature to his will.

The Holy Spirit it is which, through the mediation of the Prophets of God, teaches spiritual virtues to man and enables him to attain Eternal Life. All these blessings are brought to man by the Holy Spirit; therefore we can understand that the Holy Spirit is the Intermediary between the Creator and the created. The light and heat of the sun cause the earth to be fruitful, and create life in all things that grow; and the Holy Spirit quickens the souls of men." – Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 58.

I see Angels are souls that have accepted the Annointed Ones, or were born again into the Holy Spirit as Jesus asked of us. In the Baha'i Writings they form part of what is known as the Concourse on High which is made up of all the Messengers and the followers who have embraced them. They One and All are ready to assist us, all we have to do is ask.

I see It is the concourse on high that sustains humanity.

Regards Tony
 
Faithfulservant said:
A big one for me is that according to the bible blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. Or that you can grieve the Holy Spirit. Or that our bodies are the temple of God because the Holy Spirit dwells within us.

Edit to add that we also believe that that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer spoke of as what needs to be removed for the rise of the man of perdition.
Click to expand...
I see that blasphemy requires knowledge, otherwise it is just ignorant rejection, much like a child yet to learn of the consequences of their ignorance.

So blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, first requires recognition of the Station of Jesus the Christ, the embodiment of the Holy Spirit. Then if one tries to own or take some of that power, which has not been given of God, then that is the unforgivable sin.

Punishing of the ignorant in matters of faith is not of God, God asks us to guide the ignorant in love and compassion, just as Jesus did. There is a large part of the history of Christianity that transgressed the very foundations of compassion and those that imposed laws of blasphemy, were actually mostly (not all), the ones that could be charged of it. Only the Christ can forgive sins, we are to ask for that forgiveness.

To a person that has become blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, the only recourse is to expel them from the flock. Thus the quandary we face as humans in applying true justice

Regards Tony
 
Cino said:
I know those verses. So it is your belief that the stars are angels?
Click to expand...
Yes. Amongst other things. The Bible makes several mentions of “stars,” comparing them to OT saints, angels, and even church leaders. Stars in the Bible are a common occurrence. It's a great word study.

These are a few for Angels
“The stars fought from heaven, From their courses they fought against Sisera. (Judges 5:20)

“When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:7)

“But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. (Isaiah 14:13)

“In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. (Revelation 1:16)

“As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20)

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this: (Revelation 2:1)
 
muhammad_isa said:
Through the New Testament, demons appear 55 times, 46 times in reference to demonic possession or exorcisms. Some old English Bible translations such as King James Version do not have the word 'demon' in their vocabulary and translate it as 'devil'.
...
Because of references to Satan as the lord of demons, and evil angels of Satan throughout the New Testament, other scholars identified fallen angels with demons.
Demon - Wikipedia

Almighty God knows best whether these "fallen angels" are of the same nature as other angels.
There seems to be varying opinion on this subject, but satan is most certainly a demon/devil.
In Islam, angels are made of light, and do God's bidding .. whereas satan is of the jinn, who are made of smokeless fire,
and have a similar nature to ourselves. i.e. have a free-will, and capable of righteousness and fall from grace
Click to expand...
Ezekiel 28:14 (ESV)
14 You were an anointed guardian cherub.

I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;

in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.

2 Peter 2:4 (ESV)
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment

Ezekiel 28:16 (ESV)
16 In the abundance of your trade
you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
 
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