Holy Spirit and Gabriel

[Faithfulservant]

I didn't mean to hit pst but I wanted to ask you if it is the belief in Islam that God created jinn to be evil? If not what were they before that? Is it like how we refer to fallen angels as demons?

Edit to add that the word Angel simply means messenger there is a hierarchy

 

[muhammad_isa]

I didn't mean to hit pst but I wanted to ask you if it is the belief in Islam that God created jinn to be evil?

No ..G-d made Angels and jinn before He made Adam.
Before Adam was created, Lucifer [aka Iblees] was with the angels in heaven.
He was the most pious jinn.

The Angels asked G-d why He had created Adam [mankind], saying that they would work corruption
and spoil everything. G-d said that He knew what they did not know.
G-d asked the angels to bow down to Adam.
They all did so .. except for Iblees .. he was too proud, and claimed to be better. [Uh, oh]
That is when he fell, and became satan, and vowed that he would tempt mankind all astray
through envy and despair.

 

[Faithfulservant]

No ..G-d made Angels and jinn before He made Adam.
Before Adam was created, Lucifer [aka Iblees] was with the angels in heaven.
He was the most pious jinn.

The Angels asked G-d why He had created Adam [mankind], saying that they would work corruption
and spoil everything. G-d said that He knew what they did not know.
G-d asked the angels to bow down to Adam.
They all did so .. except for Iblees .. he was too proud, and claimed to be better. [Uh, oh]
That is when he fell, and became satan, and vowed that he would tempt mankind all astray
through envy and despair.

That's mostly similar to what we believe. According to the bible several types of Angels are described Cherubim Seraphim Archangels.. the only three to have described with a name were Lucifer Michael and Gabriel. I believe the book of Enoch is more detailed on this. The bible says that God has named all the stars in heaven. I like to think He is referring to all of the Angels.

 

[moralorel]

According to the bible Angels can and have disobeyed God as it states 1/3 fell from heaven with Lucifer.

That and the Bible says that we will judge angels. Kind of hard to judge angels if they never sin.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more thing that pertain to this life?

 

[Thomas]

Thank you Thomas, but please note I have not offerd that the angles are Annointed. It is the Messengers that are 'Annointed'.

Ah, with you now. My error.

Baha'u'llah has given further detail on the Holy Spirit ... itself created of God the 'Most Great Spirit'.

You see a distinction between the 'Most Great Spirit' and the Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit is created?

If so, that is where we part company.

"....Likewise the Holy Spirit is the very cause of the life of man ...

Very much as John 1 declares.

I see Angels are souls ...

Interesting. We see angels as spirits, not souls.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Interesting. We see angels as spirits, not souls.

Abdul'baha explains that our soul is spirit.

As such, I see that angels are souls that have lived this life and passed on, who have been born again in Spirit. We are told they form a 'concourse in high', they are the motivation behind our humanity and our abilities. (Quotes giving more accurate detail are available)

In the Holy Books when soul and spirit are used, they designate the same thing. That is the soul is an emanation of the Human Spirit.

Christ offered we must be born from the human spirit into the Holy Spirit.

This also given alternative understanding as to the Holy Spirit, which emanates from God. When in your reply you offer we depart, I offer it just needs more discussion and clarification.

Regards Tony

 

[Thomas]

Abdul'baha explains that our soul is spirit.

Ah, we see a more qualified distinction, as do Jews and Muslims.

As such, I see that angels are souls that have lived this life and passed on, who have been born again in Spirit. We are told they form a 'concourse in high', they are the motivation behind our humanity and our abilities. (Quotes giving more accurate detail are available)

No, we don't believe that.

In the Holy Books when soul and spirit are used, they designate the same thing. That is the soul is an emanation of the Human Spirit.

Not in the Old nor the New Testament. Of course you have to read contextually, but beneath that are very definite distinctions.

This also given alternative understanding as to the Holy Spirit, which emanates from God.

We tread carefully here, as emanation too easily leads into Platonist error – so we might just be being over-sensitive.

In one sense all things emanate from God – God is the Cause of All, but all things are of God but God, hence not emanations in that sense. Likewise we prefer to say the Holy Spirit 'proceeds' from the Father, and the Father and the Son, but the Holy Spirit is God, and where one Person of the Trinity is, all three are.

When in your reply you offer we depart, I offer it just needs more discussion and clarification.

OK.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Ah, we see a more qualified distinction, as do Jews and Muslims.

What can I say, there are literally hundreds of passages on the soul and Spirit, as such there is indeed a large amount of qualified distinctions that could be discussed.

I now am seeing it best to leave it all alone on this forum.

Regards Tony

 

[TheLightWithin]

What can I say, there are literally hundreds of passages on the soul and Spirit, as such there is indeed a large amount of qualified distinctions that could be discussed.

I now am seeing it best to leave it all alone on this forum.

Regards Tony

But this was such an interesting discussion

 

[saurab]

I was looking on a wiki page and saw this:
"In Islam, the Holy Spirit is believed to be the Angel Gabriel."
(The reference cited: Khan, Muhammad Muhsin; Al-Hilali, Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din (2020-06-16). Interpretation of the Meaning of the Qur'an.)
That's not right, is it?

The Holy Spirit is NOT the angel Gabriel.