Follow Christ but not Christian

wil

wil

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muhammad_isa said:
As you say, all Christians consider themselves monotheist

They were replying to Thomas and he to them.

So I moved over here. For many if not most Christians they would say I am not.

My issues are many, but to start I believe the Bible has some issues from the selection of what 66 books were kept as canon vs what was tossed. Then there is the authorship, translation, editing and interpretation, I am not into arguing which is most accurate or the intricacies and nuance of each jot ot tittle I have issues with, I just enjoy reading and watching the discussions of others who argue so forcibly that they are right and others are wrong and pretty much take it as proof that nobody has a corner on what is truth, and they just continue the same 2000 + year old debates.

For me the words purported to be Jesus's and much of the allegory, stories, and parables assist me in dealing with current life issues and relationships. The thing is they aren't always the same, I have changed, grown, evolved in thinking from the last time I read that passage and my current issues differ, therefore my interpretation of any given passage will differ based on my need for that information at this point in time.

But in reality for me it is the story, it matters not if the story ever happened or if it is a true account, but can I learn something from this times remembrance or reading?

I ain't a monotheistic or a polytheist or theist period. I don't know if there was a Jesus (or if his purported words or deeds are one person or an amalgam of folk living at the time and mythical stories)

And I also find benefit in Buddha, Lao Tzu, Thay, Gita, and many other gurus, teachers, preachers, scientists, researchers.

I can surely understand how anyone who has one solid belief in one religion or sect of a religion would have issues on an interfaith site.

I also understand why folks have issues with my belief
 
wil said:
..I just enjoy reading and watching the discussions of others who argue so forcibly that they are right and others are wrong and pretty much take it as proof that nobody has a corner on what is truth, and they just continue the same 2000 + year old debates.
Click to expand...
Mmm, what we consider as truth, is often subjective..

wil said:
And I also find benefit in Buddha, Lao Tzu, Thay, Gita, and many other gurus, teachers, preachers, scientists, researchers.

I can surely understand how anyone who has one solid belief in one religion or sect of a religion would have issues on an interfaith site..
Click to expand...
I certainly find I have "issues" since I started believing the Qur'an to be true.
It is regrettable [to me] that the trinity is a tenet of faith for most Christians.
 
wil said:
Exactly! And why should you have issues with Christians believing the trinity?
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I have already explained .. I find it divisive.

For example, most Christians accept that Jews do not believe in Jesus, and
that they have their own covenant with G-d .. they even include the Tanakh in the Bible.

..but when it comes to the Qur'an, they reject it as "false scripture".
..so it's respectable to be a Jew, but to be a Muslim is to be astray?
I find that regrettable.
 
muhammad_isa said:
..so it's respectable to be a Jew, but to be a Muslim is to be astray?
I find that regrettable.
Click to expand...
I think the shared history of Christianity and Judaism shows that it only became respectable very, very recently, from a Christian perspective.

May I ask a direct question? For you, is it about being accepted as a person by Christians, or is it about Muslim doctrine being accepted by Christians? What's at stake here, for you?

I can assure you that while I feel the divide between our world views - Muslim and Atheist -, I feel our brotherhood as human beings much more strongly. Like, different orders of magnitude.

Don't be lonely. I acknowledge your beliefs as different from mine, but I would never let that stand between us.
 
Cino said:
I think the shared history of Christianity and Judaism shows that it only became respectable very, very recently, from a Christian perspective.
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I understand what you mean .. Jews certainly have been persecuted over the years, for sure.
..but it still remains that Christians acknowledge their scripture.

Cino said:
May I ask a direct question? For you, is it about being accepted as a person by Christians, or is it about Muslim doctrine being accepted by Christians? What's at stake here, for you?
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Well, I do find it frustrating that I, as a Christian, recognised the truth in the Qur'an whilst others don't.
That's only natural.
..but I can understand why people stick to what they know .. that is also only natural.

Cino said:
I can assure you that while I feel the divide between our world views - Muslim and Atheist -, I feel our brotherhood as human beings much more strongly. Like, different orders of magnitude.

Don't be lonely. I acknowledge your beliefs as different from mine, but I would never let that stand between us.
Click to expand...
Agreed .. we should not let our religions divide us as a society .. that is a recipe for disaster,
..being disabled doesn't help when it comes to loneliness, particularly as we age.
I struggle to get out.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I have already explained .. I find it divisive.

For example, most Christians accept that Jews do not believe in Jesus, and
that they have their own covenant with G-d .. they even include the Tanakh in the Bible.

..but when it comes to the Qur'an, they reject it as "false scripture".
..so it's respectable to be a Jew, but to be a Muslim is to be astray?
I find that regrettable.
Click to expand...
So just as you have issues with trinity? The nerve of them!

Religionists being anti interfaith is nothing new, most are exactly that way. It Takes effort to honor the beliefs of others, not all are capable, as you are aware
 
The reason we accept the Old Testament as scripture is because we believe that Jesus was there pre Incarnate. That it was Him all throughout. It's not teaching anything new and that Jesus in the New testament is Jesus revealing Himself as the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The Quran is teaching something new and different than what Jesus did and taught and revealed. After The book of Revelation there is no new Revelation. I know it's hard for you as I feel you are trying to reveal what is truth to you and to open our eyes to it . But if we truly follow Jesus Christ we cannot accept your truth.
 
Faithfulservant said:
The Quran is teaching something new and different than what Jesus did and taught and revealed..
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Well, personally, I see that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be with them,
had similar teachings .. they all taught the importance of belief in One God, and to love God
with all our heart and mind.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Well, personally, I see that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be with them,
had similar teachings .. they all taught the importance of belief in One God, and to love God
with all our heart and mind.
Click to expand...
Were Moses and Muhammad of virgin birth? The Qur'an says Jesus is of virgin birth. Who is the Father of Jesus?
 
Allah alone has the power to create (even a fly). If Allah gave Jesus the power to create life from clay birds, it means Allah made Jesus God. The Qur'an is so confused about Jesus ...
 
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muhammad_isa said:
For example, most Christians accept that Jews do not believe in Jesus, and
that they have their own covenant with G-d .. they even include the Tanakh in the Bible.
Click to expand...
Some do... dual covenant theology they call it I think
But many do not, and are aghast and condemning that Jews do not believe in Jesus and try to evangelize them (I think that's why Rabbi Tovia Singer, videos featured elsewhere recently on this forum, can get so fired up in his critiques of Christian theology and doctrine)
 
muhammad_isa said:
It is regrettable [to me] that the trinity is a tenet of faith for most Christians.
Click to expand...
What I find most regrettable about it is how the minority of Christians who are nonTrinitarian are dogmatically dismissed as not even Christian, or as heretics, rather than their being the flexibility to acknowledge some space for heterodoxy in one form or another. Nope, for some people it is all or nothing.
 
What I don't understand is why they would care what trinitarians think? It's not a high school clique we're talking about. It's an individuals belief. If I believe in a Triune God and don't consider someone a Christian who denies the trinity or Christs deity that's just my opinion based on my beliefs. It's a precarious thing having to navigate around other people's feelings these days and this is just one thing I personally cannot budge on.

I get that people want to be validated and have their beliefs acknowledged and I can do that except to lie and say I believe that those beliefs are true. That would be denying what MY faith teaches. A Muslim would not admit Jesus is God for the same reason. An Atheist would not admit there's a God for the same reason. People believe what they believe. What we can do is respect and love each other in spite of all that.
 
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