Gd as ordering force in the Universe

[Cino]

Right. I guess I’d agree that, while G-d could exist outside of the observable universe, we can only make observations of what is perceivable so we only experience G-d as a part of the universe?

Here's something that fits your description: Money. And I don't mean coins or account statements, these are representations of money, icons or graven images, if you will Money itself has no existence in our universe. It does, however, have real influence on the lives of people, perceivable ones.

A bit tongue in cheek, of course, as I suspect that this is not quite what you mean when you speak of God.

 

[RJM]

Money itself has no existence in our universe. It does, however, have real influence on the lives of people, perceivable

Nor does shadow, except as the lack of light: full darkness is the certainty of the complete lack of all light, but there is no fullness of light, from ten million suns -- always a brighter light?

 

[RJM]

How does truth fit my ego and yet expand to fill all space and time,?

 

[Cino]

Nor does shadow, except as the lack of light: full darkness is the certainty of the complete lack of all light, but there is no fullness of light, from ten million suns -- always a brighter light?

Well, money as a spiritual concept, being real without having existence, may have been a bit polemical and misleading.

Here's what I was hinting at:

So far, this discussion was focussed on ordering forces which can be readily observed and scientifically theorized about - physics, statistical probability of birth, etc.

All of these have both a physical existence in this universe, as well as being real in our experience.

My limited understanding of Kaplan's views is that these ordering principles are endorsed as divine.

How about ordering principles which lack the physical existence, and yet have real power over our lives?

Money - yes, I already admitted this was too crass an example, maybe.

But ethics? The ordering principles of ethics can't be empirically observed independently from our personal, lived experience. Ethics has no physical existence - the books of law are again representations, icons, tokens, but they are not "ethics" in and of themselves.

How does Kaplan view such ordering principles which are not rooted in the physical universe?

(I'd love it if @RabbiO were to have a moment of spare time to weigh in, but suspect that he's got plenty of work right now, what with the holiday schedule and all that)

 

[wil]

Right. I guess I’d agree that, while G-d could exist outside of the observable universe, we can only make observations of what is perceivable so we only experience G-d as a part of the universe?

But process/principle/TOE, is in and of this universe, omnipresent, in our midst, in Him we live and breathe and have our being.

 

[davidsheep88]

God moves forces we cannot see and it's great. Very interesting.

 

[Leveller]

Right. I guess I’d agree that, while G-d could exist outside of the observable universe, we can only make observations of what is perceivable so we only experience G-d as a part of the universe?

I agree with you in principle but this is really about interpreting what we receive from the five senses. I, however, firmly believe that our perception does not end there. Many people do catch glimpses of 'something' else. Such intuitive/mystical experiences do make evidence-based discussion difficult but cannot be ignored by the recipient.
If the only course open to me was one of intellectualizing about the universe and saying "maybe" then life would be very different.