How many Abrahamic faiths are there?

[TheLightWithin]

It's easy for most people to identify Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as "the big three" Abrahamic faiths.
I remember once years ago hearing something on I think a televangelist channel saying "Mormonism is actually a fourth Abrahamic faith"
While I agree that Mormonism is a distinct faith in its own right, derived from Christianity but different from what most people think of as either orthodox or heterodox denominations of Christianity --
I could not see how the televangelist could only count up to four Abrahamic faiths.
Aren't there nearly a dozen?
Samaritans, Druze, Bahai, Rastafari, -- I've run across references to modern Manicheanism and the Yazidi, both of whom I know very little about, but I think they are different -- the Yazidi being more like Zoroastrians I think?

Feel free to move this to a different thread if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it.

 

[EricPH]

It's easy for most people to identify Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as "the big three" Abrahamic faiths.

I am not sure how you can count any faith as 'One Faith'. There are thousands of Christian denominations, but only 'One Jesus Christ', we should be as 'One'.

The same 'One God' has set us some profound challenges in life. The Jews are his chosen people, Christians are first chosen by Christ, and in Islam, Allah chooses whom he wills.

 

[wil]

Feel free to move this to a different thread if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it

Ya done good, put a discussion of abrahamic religions right smack dab in the abrahamic religion forum!

These threads evolve and spawn maybe some day some ai will go thru and crosslink similar threads and clean up the mess of thought and contemplation we have strewn all over this corner of the cloud.

Beyond the big 3 and their thousands of sects...the others all stretch the definition in my opinion...I mean the god of Abraham may be involved in each...but from Judaism on each change adds a new flavor, a new twist, veering further from the original (or as some contend deeper to true nature)

Bottom line I don't see a consensus forming...it is currently perspective based on location...if you are of the big 3 me thinks the vast majority will discount the others as kludges, incorporating non abrahamic beliefs or traditions from other religions. Yet if you are a reside as part of the aforementioned faiths you see them as part of the whole yet slightly more refined, new and improved updates and corrections based on new information or revelation.

Me? I am in the limbo. I consider myself a follower of the words purported to be of Jesus as my elder brother and wayshower, but see the god of Abraham as a man made effigy, the old white off his meds egocentric super hero in the sky tossing out plagues and bounty amongst his pets. (I prolly differ with most believers in that respect) But the Bible is my leading resource of allegory and parables that help navigate the pitfalls of existence, while I incorporate any other thought that will further my understandings..

I think I am in the group but not of it...

 

[TheLightWithin]

It's easy for most people to identify Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as "the big three" Abrahamic faiths.
I remember once years ago hearing something on I think a televangelist channel saying "Mormonism is actually a fourth Abrahamic faith"
While I agree that Mormonism is a distinct faith in its own right, derived from Christianity but different from what most people think of as either orthodox or heterodox denominations of Christianity --
I could not see how the televangelist could only count up to four Abrahamic faiths.
Aren't there nearly a dozen?
Samaritans, Druze, Bahai, Rastafari, -- I've run across references to modern Manicheanism and the Yazidi, both of whom I know very little about, but I think they are different -- the Yazidi being more like Zoroastrians I think?

Feel free to move this to a different thread if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it.

Replying to myself here -- I forgot to include Noahides. Judaism for Gentiles. I think it's just as separate from Judaism proper as the Samaritans or Karaites are, but in a different way. Oh, I think I forgot to mention the Karaites.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Ya done good, put a discussion of abrahamic religions right smack dab in the abrahamic religion forum!

These threads evolve and spawn maybe some day some ai will go thru and crosslink similar threads and clean up the mess of thought and contemplation we have strewn all over this corner of the cloud.

Beyond the big 3 and their thousands of sects...the others all stretch the definition in my opinion...I mean the god of Abraham may be involved in each...but from Judaism on each change adds a new flavor, a new twist, veering further from the original (or as some contend deeper to true nature)

Bottom line I don't see a consensus forming...it is currently perspective based on location...if you are of the big 3 me thinks the vast majority will discount the others as kludges, incorporating non abrahamic beliefs or traditions from other religions. Yet if you are a reside as part of the aforementioned faiths you see them as part of the whole yet slightly more refined, new and improved updates and corrections based on new information or revelation.

Me? I am in the limbo. I consider myself a follower of the words purported to be of Jesus as my elder brother and wayshower, but see the god of Abraham as a man made effigy, the old white off his meds egocentric super hero in the sky tossing out plagues and bounty amongst his pets. (I prolly differ with most believers in that respect) But the Bible is my leading resource of allegory and parables that help navigate the pitfalls of existence, while I incorporate any other thought that will further my understandings..

I think I am in the group but not of it...

Those are good points. I think though that Samaritans would have to be Abrahamic, and with Mormonism using the Bible and with Bahai being a development from Islam, and with Rasti using the Bible, it would be hard to call them non-Abrahamic. I'm less sure about the Druze and the way they see God or how they descend from the tradition. Noahides are Abrahamic for sure -- or aren't they? They are supposed to be following the Noahide laws, pre-Abraham, but it's supposed to be the God of the Jews -- Judaism for Gentiles as it were. So I would say they are.

 

[Kenny818]

This depends on how you are defining an Abrahamic faith. The widest version are the faiths that descend from Abraham's sons Ishmael and Isaac.
The tricky part is that these faiths may not consider their offshoots "legitimate" religions, or conversely may consider an offshoot as just another branch of their own. Some Christians consider Mormonism to be too different from Christianity to be a part of it and hence a non-Abrahamic faith while others might consider Mormonism just another denomination. The consensus among most Muslims is that since they regard Baha'ullah as a prophet, that the Baha'is are no longer Muslims even though one can trace the roots to messianic movement of Shi'a Islam during the 1840s.

There are also quite a few minor religious sects throughout the Middle East who, while not directly being Abrahamic, were influenced by it such as Samaritans and Mandaeans.

 

[TheLightWithin]

This depends on how you are defining an Abrahamic faith. The widest version are the faiths that descend from Abraham's sons Ishmael and Isaac.
The tricky part is that these faiths may not consider their offshoots "legitimate" religions, or conversely may consider an offshoot as just another branch of their own. Some Christians consider Mormonism to be too different from Christianity to be a part of it and hence a non-Abrahamic faith while others might consider Mormonism just another denomination. The consensus among most Muslims is that since they regard Baha'ullah as a prophet, that the Baha'is are no longer Muslims even though one can trace the roots to messianic movement of Shi'a Islam during the 1840s.

There are also quite a few minor religious sects throughout the Middle East who, while not directly being Abrahamic, were influenced by it such as Samaritans and Mandaeans.

What got me thinking about this was a few years ago hearing someone on TV, I thought at television evangelist or maybe someone in the political realm, speculating as to whether Mormonism was "a fourth Abrahamic religion" I would agree that it is a separate religion from Christianity and also remains Abrahamic due to having come from Christianity and still using the Bible and believing themselves to be following the God of the Bible. What I disagree with is calling them the fourth, as I looked into it and found several more.

I would also say Samaritans are definitely Abrahamic and not just incidental, as they were a split from Judaism.
I had forgotten the Mandeans though.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I am not sure how you can count any faith as 'One Faith'. There are thousands of Christian denominations, but only 'One Jesus Christ', we should be as 'One'.

The same 'One God' has set us some profound challenges in life. The Jews are his chosen people, Christians are first chosen by Christ, and in Islam, Allah chooses whom he wills.

In some branches of Christianity, the Reformed tradition I think, they would also argue God chooses whom he wills "the elect" as they say who are preordained to find/receive salvation, and with "double predestination" those who are condemned are foreordained to condemnation as well.
To me this always sounded sus, a distortion of the Gospel, but it's the way (at least conservative) Presbyterians are taught to think, a huge influence on even non denominational Christianity even now.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In some branches of Christianity, the Reformed tradition I think, they would also argue God chooses whom he wills "the elect" as they say who are preordained to find/receive salvation..

Mmm .. Calvinism.
It is a confused way of seeing things, imo.

If G-d has decided who is saved, does this mean that we have no free-will ?!?
..so G-d decides who is going to hell, and we are just puppets playing out G-d's plan.

That makes no sense to me.
I can understand a situation that G-d knows the future .. what we will choose of our own free-will.
That is how I see it.

 

[wil]

The tricky part is that these faiths may not consider their offshoots "legitimate" religions, or conversely may consider an offshoot as just another branch of their own.

One time I after an interfaith prayer service I was driving home two of our speakers for the evening a Hindu Priest and Buddhist monk. The monk sat in the back as indrove to a nearby Hindu Temple, the entire way the priest pontificated as to how Buddhists are essentially a confused branch of Hinduism. To which the monk was silent. The priest kept making pointed comments to illicit a response which did not come. When I stopped the two got out bowed, exchanged pleasantries and goodbyes. The monk got in the car and simply said..."some want to believe that." This was not a typical encounter, and I think spoke more about the priest than the religion.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Mmm .. Calvinism.
It is a confused way of seeing things, imo.

If G-d has decided who is saved, does this mean that we have no free-will ?!?
..so G-d decides who is going to hell, and we are just puppets playing out G-d's plan.

That makes no sense to me.
I can understand a situation that G-d knows the future .. what we will choose of our own free-will.
That is how I see it.

Yes, Calvinism.
Harsh doctrine.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Let me try an overview:
Judaism is one religion without strictly separate institutions, although different branches exist (orthodox, conservative, reform, masortim, secular). In spite of difference, all these recognise eachother as Jews.
Christianity is one religion with three major branches (Autocephalous Orthodox with Koptic and Armenian, Roman Catholic, and many autonomous Protestant denominations). The Church of the East (Nestorians) has recently allied with the Roman Catholic Church in spite of many differences in history, theology and rites. Jehovah's witnesses and Messianic Judaism see themselves as separate denominations. In spite of difference, all these recognise eachother as Christians.
Islam has soon divided into two branches, Sunni and Shia. Sunni Islam has several directions (Orthodox=Conservative=Traditional, Sufism, Salafiya, Modernist, classical and modern Mutazillah) and four traditional schools.
Shia Islam divided into 12er and 5er Shia, Allawite and Alevite. The sect of Ahmaddia is particular accepting a "Mahdi" which is not accepted by any other denomination. The Quranists who reject Hadith as a reliable source are neither Sunni nor Shia. Except for some extremists, all those denominations recognise eachother as Muslim.
Samaritans, an early branch from Judaism, still exists in a small community.
Mandeans follow a faith that is founded on Jewish/Samaritan baptism rites and other traditions from the middle east. They are probably the Sabi mentioned in the Quran.
Druze are influenced by Islam but don't define themselves as Muslim.
Baha'i is a religion founded by two founders who lived in the 19th century they see as prophets. The religion is based on Islam but recognises universal prophecy also outside the Abrahamic tradition. Neither themselves nor Muslim consider them Muslim.
Latter Day Saints (Mormons) are basically Christians but they accept the "Books of Mormon" which are rejected by all (other) Christians.

Historically, there has also been Gnosticism, combining Christian, Greek and Oriental ideas, founded by various teachers and Manichaeism, combining Mandean, Christian and Parsic ideas, founded b Mani.

Some small historical or recent sects remain unmentioned here.

 

[wil]

Let me try an overview

Nice entry!

 

[TheLightWithin]

Let me try an overview:
Judaism is one religion without strictly separate institutions, although different branches exist (orthodox, conservative, reform, masortim, secular). In spite of difference, all these recognise eachother as Jews.
Christianity is one religion with three major branches (Autocephalous Orthodox with Koptic and Armenian, Roman Catholic, and many autonomous Protestant denominations). The Church of the East (Nestorians) has recently allied with the Roman Catholic Church in spite of many differences in history, theology and rites. Jehovah's witnesses and Messianic Judaism see themselves as separate denominations. In spite of difference, all these recognise eachother as Christians.
Islam has soon divided into two branches, Sunni and Shia. Sunni Islam has several directions (Orthodox=Conservative=Traditional, Sufism, Salafiya, Modernist, classical and modern Mutazillah) and four traditional schools.
Shia Islam divided into 12er and 5er Shia, Allawite and Alevite. The sect of Ahmaddia is particular accepting a "Mahdi" which is not accepted by any other denomination. The Quranists who reject Hadith as a reliable source are neither Sunni nor Shia. Except for some extremists, all those denominations recognise eachother as Muslim.
Samaritans, an early branch from Judaism, still exists in a small community.
Mandeans follow a faith that is founded on Jewish/Samaritan baptism rites and other traditions from the middle east. They are probably the Sabi mentioned in the Quran.
Druze are influenced by Islam but don't define themselves as Muslim.
Baha'i is a religion founded by two founders who lived in the 19th century they see as prophets. The religion is based on Islam but recognises universal prophecy also outside the Abrahamic tradition. Neither themselves nor Muslim consider them Muslim.
Latter Day Saints (Mormons) are basically Christians but they accept the "Books of Mormon" which are rejected by all (other) Christians.

Historically, there has also been Gnosticism, combining Christian, Greek and Oriental ideas, founded by various teachers and Manichaeism, combining Mandean, Christian and Parsic ideas, founded b Mani.

Some small historical or recent sects remain unmentioned here.

Nice overview. Good summary.
Within Christianity -- Sects such as Jehovah's Witnesses, due to doctrinal differences from classical Christianity, are often not recognized as Christian by other Christians. I take exception to that, but have become accustomed to it.

 

[RabbiO]

Let me try an overview:
Judaism is one religion without strictly separate institutions, although different branches exist (orthodox, conservative, reform, masortim, secular). In spite of difference, all these recognize each other as Jews.

Let’s just concentrate on the last sentence here. The first sentence has its own problems, but we’ll leave those for another time.

Not all the movements within Judaism recognize other Jews as Jews. For example, Orthodox Judaism does not recognize as valid conversions under those conducted under non-Orthodox auspices. Those movements that recognize patrilineal descent as, under certain circumstances, a determinent of Jewishness, accept as Jews folks that neither the Orthodox nor Conservative movents accept.

 

[wil]

Let’s just concentrate on the last sentence here. The first sentence has its own problems, but we’ll leave those for another time.

Love the nuanced correction from within a corral and feel that does apply to many...the stricter version will often see those that don't follow every jot and tittle as not following every jot and tittle therefore.

And on the flip side, those that have decided reconstruction and renewal is required sometimes view the other as archaic, outdated and no longer applicable.

But I wait in anticipation for further clarification.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I also forgot to mention Santeria, which I believe perceives itself as aligned with the Bible and the Catholic church though the Church does not recognize it. However, it has origins in native religions and may not maintain enough of the theology around being a descendants of Abraham to be counted... Does anybody know more about it? I am looking it up but curious if anybody has a deep background in it already.

 

[RabbiO]

Love the nuanced correction from within a corral……

Did you just favorably compare me to Mr. Ed?