Persecuted Religions

[Thinking required]

Revelation 11 tells the story of Islam, in verse 3 the Two Witnesses are Muhammad and Ali, who shall give prophecy for 1260 years.

I love your imagination

 

[Cino]

Say someone is in a bad abusive relationship and I try to help the person out of it, yet they don’t want out of the relationship because they feel like no one else will every love them. Should I sit back and see them abused or try to help them see what they can not see at this point.

But this forum is not a self-help group for abusive relationships. Such places exist, and they serve an important role, but this is not such a place.

And to say someone else's spirituality or religion is similar to an abusive relationship, can you see how that comes across as very inappropriate?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I love your imagination

It is written.

As Interpretation was given under authority of the Father, all that was required by me was to consider the explanation, and explanation I found sound.

You can read that explanation if you wish.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

A collection of transcriptions of table talks given by ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá in ‘Akká between 1904 and 1906 in response to questions posed by Laura Dreyfus-Barney, an American Bahá’í resident in Paris, and first published in 1908. The new edition, extensively retranslated, was published in 2014.

www.bahai.org

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

In the Muslim countries, I would offer the Baha'i are persecuted to a greater extent than Jews and Christians.

Why they are so disliked, is because the essence of the Faith of Muhammad has been forgotten and long neglected.

The Bible foretells this, that Islam would last 1260 years and be as a dead body laying in the street. This is because Islam did not accept Ali as the rightful successor, appointed verbally by Muhammad. The Shia Dynasties became the Beast.

Revelation 11 tells the story of Islam, in verse 3 the Two Witnesses are Muhammad and Ali, who shall give prophecy for 1260 years.

Verse 8 and 9 tell us of the error made and that Islam became a Faith based in man made Law and not of the Spirit of the Teachings of Muhammad.

A lot can be offered, only if one is interested.

Regards Tony

Ok this is a good discussion!

In the Christian faith the two witnesses are considered to be Moses and Elijah as possibilities for the two witnesses due to the specific miracles that John says the witnesses will perform. The witnesses will have the power to turn water into blood (Revelation 11:6), which duplicates a famous miracle of Moses (Exodus 7). And the witnesses will have the power to destroy their enemies with fire (Revelation 11:5), which corresponds to an event in Elijah’s life (2 Kings 1). Also giving strength to this view is the fact that Moses and Elijah both appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3–4)

Enoch and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the unique circumstances surrounding their exit from the world. Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two individuals whom God has taken directly to heaven without experiencing death (Genesis 5:23; 2 Kings 2:11). Proponents of this view point to Hebrews 9:27, which says that all men are appointed to die once. The fact that neither Enoch nor Elijah has yet experienced death seems to qualify them for the job of the two witnesses, who will be killed when their job is done. In addition, both Enoch and Elijah were prophets who pronounced God’s judgment (1 Kings 17:1; Jude 1:14–15).

there are a few other possibilities but think these two are the most plausible based on scripture.

in the end it doesn't matter to me personally as I believe in the pre tribulation rapture! What an amazing thing to be a part of though..

Edit to add my source

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation? Are the two witnesses Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Ok this is a good discussion!

In the Christian faith the two witnesses are considered to be Moses and Elijah as possibilities for the two witnesses due to the specific miracles that John says the witnesses will perform. The witnesses will have the power to turn water into blood (Revelation 11:6), which duplicates a famous miracle of Moses (Exodus 7). And the witnesses will have the power to destroy their enemies with fire (Revelation 11:5), which corresponds to an event in Elijah’s life (2 Kings 1). Also giving strength to this view is the fact that Moses and Elijah both appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3–4)

Enoch and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the unique circumstances surrounding their exit from the world. Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two individuals whom God has taken directly to heaven without experiencing death (Genesis 5:23; 2 Kings 2:11). Proponents of this view point to Hebrews 9:27, which says that all men are appointed to die once. The fact that neither Enoch nor Elijah has yet experienced death seems to qualify them for the job of the two witnesses, who will be killed when their job is done. In addition, both Enoch and Elijah were prophets who pronounced God’s judgment (1 Kings 17:1; Jude 1:14–15).

there are a few other possibilities but think these two are the most plausible based on scripture.

in the end it doesn't matter to me personally as I believe in the pre tribulation rapture! What an amazing thing to be a part of though..

Edit to add my source

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation? Are the two witnesses Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah?

www.gotquestions.org

I would offer Revelation is about what is to come, it is prophecy.

Elijah does always come first, in the day of Jesus it was confirmed that it was John the Baptist who was Elijah.

For the Baha'i, Elijah was the Bab (Gate) who prepared the way for Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) on this very Day in 1844 that declaration was made. What a great coincidence that you get to know that, it offers a great challenge.

A point of interest is that the remains of the Bab are now interred on Mount Carmel, just a short distance from the Cave of Elijah. I visited that cave on my Baha'i Pilgrimage to the Holy Land in December 2012

Thus fulfilling a great prophecy where all nations shall flow up the Mountain of the Lord.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg this contradicts scripture that his remains are located anywhere as Elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind on a chariot of fire in 2 Kings 2..

Also John the Baptist was not Elijah but came in the spirit of power of Elijah. Not to mention Elijah appeared at the Mount of Transfiguration after John the Baptist died. Also he denied being Elijah


John 19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” 22 So they said to him, “Who are you? We need to give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said, “I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”

 

[wil]

If you are a clown you see persecution of clowns.

Get over it, it is called life

Religious people of different religions can not dialogue about Religion, so what is the purpose of this site?

Evidently we have been doing the impossible for years... the challenge is always the know it sells who have all the truth, yet are persecuted constantly for trying to tell others they are among the only True believers

Do you really think that you are telling me something that I don't already know!

It's foolish for me to waste my time over this.

No and probably...but more a waste of ours...there are a plethora of you who have come and gone.

Funny we.dont conformn or convert...but sometimes they do...better run before you get tolerant, compassionate, empathetic, and woke...you know like Jesus!

 

[TheLightWithin]

Would you agree that the Jews and Christians are the most persecuted Religions in the world? Not trying to tie them together in the same sense. Why are these two groups so disliked in the Muslim countries?

Rivalry. Sibling rivalry if you like. But there are also disputes over power and land.
Intolerance and claims of exclusivity play a role
Muslims are or have been in conflict with Hindus in India, and have smashed Buddhist sculptures in Afghanistan.

 

[Faithfulservant]

It's true.. people come in like a storm and blow right back out. Take the time to get to know people here.. this really is a community and everyone here that's been here for awhile all have something valid and interesting to bring to the table.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I never meant individual persecution. The Branch Davidians was a cult, nothing to do with Christianity. I don't believe all of any group are what they say they are. If your life doesn't reflect the teaching of the Bible, I don't care what you call yourself, you are not a Christian. Too many people look at Christianity like you do and you don't have the slightest idea what a Christian is. There are really very few Christians, a lot of people who claim to be, but as Jesus said to those who thought that they were Christ followers, "depart from me, I never knew you" Why don't you look for the truth.

Oh, they had something to do with Christianity all right. But they departed greatly from the mainstream even of their denomination.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Then you are confused. Maybe you are just looking at the cult of Catholics. They certainly are not Christian since they are caving in to all the liberal crud going on, gay marriage, and such. Even in America, Christians are very persecuted for their moral beliefs. Muslim countries, they are just killed. Please don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, I have friends throughout the world. If you believe that they are this powerful, then you certainly don't understand or know what a Christian is. Christians are opposed to all the evil that is going on and yet, they are loosing in all the areas. Open your eyes to the truth. Abortion is certainly not a Christian desire, even getting Roe VS wade overthrown, it only fueled liberals to want more laws supporting abortion. Abortion is the out right murder of babies set up as a woman's right.

I noticed that you didn't say anything about the Jews. The 20th Century clearly defines that mess. Stop thinking that the Vatican is Christianity, it's not. You probably haven't even met a true Christian.

Christianity is the largest and most influential religion in the world. Yes, including the Catholic church, and American evangelicals who are politically active and influential.

Within Christianity, it's extremely commonly heard "They aren't real Christians" and people mean all sorts of things about it.
Catholic church in their most hardline doctrine thing everyone else including the Orthodox and the Protestants are heretics and "there is no salvation outside the Church" (their church) The Orthodox branches have similar opinions.
Calvinists often believe anybody not like themselves is hell bound, and many evangelicals, Calvinistic or not, insist that any brand of Christian heterodoxy is "not Christian" (be they Quakers, JWs, Christadelphians, Armstrong churches, for being nontrinitarian, or even SDAs who are trinitarian... you name a group within church history, SOMEONE has said they "aren't real Christians"

 

[TheLightWithin]

Religious people of different religions can not dialogue about Religion, so what is the purpose of this site?

This site has been around a long time. They are very successful at dialogue on religion. I'm fairly new, but I really wish I had discovered this site earlier (I can't believe I didnt! I still look thru old threads at times wondering if I was on here a long time ago, maybe I'll find something I recognize as my own from ages ago, maybe I did join and then forgot when I went to graduate school or something)

From everything I can tell, the individuals on this site are a tight knit group of people with different beliefs who have maintained excellent dialogue for decades. There have been many people who have come and gone or come and gone and come again, throughout their history.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Would you agree that the Jews and Christians are the most persecuted Religions in the world? Not trying to tie them together in the same sense. Why are these two groups so disliked in the Muslim countries?

However, back to your original question, there are indeed persecutions of Christians and Jews in various locations around the world. I believe I've heard it's getting worse for the Orthodox Churches in some countries like Syria where it had not been so bad in a long time. But like someone else mentioned, other groups are heavily persecuted in various places as well, such as the Bahai in the middle east, there is a group called Falung Gong in China which is heavily persecuted, and if we didn't have laws and customs that support religious freedom, religious persecution would very probably happen everywhere.

So I do not have enough information to agree that Jews and Christians are the most persecuted in the world, but only enough information to know that many religious groups are seriously persecuted. Christians are probably the most widespread of any religion, so that could add to the number of locations where they are persecuted.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Maybe I am just too simple. Anywhere you look you will see lies. People just don’t seem to care. Now, can I care about people no matter what they believe, certainly. Do I care about a person more if I see them heading in a wrong direction and try to help them, yes. Say someone is in a bad abusive relationship and I try to help the person out of it, yet they don’t want out of the relationship because they feel like no one else will every love them. Should I sit back and see them abused or try to help them see what they can not see at this point. Which is the right or loving thing to do? What you see in my posts are your interpretions based on what you want to believe about me. I try my best to be clear when I say something and over explain myself too much. My entire journey here has been about deceit, not me trying to deceive but we can all be deceive. I don’t now why this bothers me so much. People lie and deceive people all the time. I guess that according to you I shouldn’t care. Let’s just chat about the weather, wait, even weather people get that wrong too!

I guess I'll take this opportunity to ask: What is your purpose here? Are you trying to change people's minds about something? In a nutsheell: What do you want people to take away from their conversations with you?

 

[TheLightWithin]

Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two individuals whom God has taken directly to heaven without experiencing death

Is there a teaching that this happened for Mary too, or is this strictly a Catholic tradition?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I guess I'll take this opportunity to ask: What is your purpose here? Are you trying to change people's minds about something? In a nutsheell: What do you want people to take away from their conversations with you?

Quoting myself here, but to clarify... do you not think the discussions are going well? Are any parts of the discussion going well in your view?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Is there a teaching that this happened for Mary too, or is this strictly a Catholic tradition?

I had never heard this.

 

[Thinking required]

But this forum is not a self-help group for abusive relationships. Such places exist, and they serve an important role, but this is not such a place.

And to say someone else's spirituality or religion is similar to an abusive relationship, can you see how that comes across as very inappropriate?

you read into my post what was not said.

 

[Thinking required]

No and probably...but more a waste of ours...there are a plethora of you who have come and gone

I can understand why. Those of you that have been here for y e a r s must not have a life. this has become your sad life. Faceless names on a screen. I can understand if someone is lonely and has been hurt, getting into the real world become scary. Yes and I will be gone soon and you can roll over into your comfort zone. No one here was made to answer any of my posts, so why waste you time with someone like me. The world is not a safe place like storage on a hard drive is.

 

[Thinking required]

the challenge is always the know it sells who have all the truth, yet are persecuted constantly for trying to tell others they are among the only True believers

I find the same non-sense everywhere, I believe Islam has the real estate on this one, believe or d i e.